Hand wringing about Jill leaving.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

That is not the case with one member here. One who, in my experience, is always the first to start with the name-calling (pussy, asshole, loser,...), who arrogantly refuses to provide facts to support his position when requested but instead demands that others prove him wrong and who broadly categorizes anything he doesnt agree with as biased or propaganda (including facts like text of laws).

Yebbut, to be fair, zengum was high on crack when he posted that stuff. And his hobo just died.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Lookout, sorry, but I disagree. I think that is an easy way out of addressing the problem.

My disagreement is the manner in which people "discuss" their differences.

I have had brief, but interesting discussions with Flint and Classicman in which we disagreed, but we were respectful.

That is not the case with one member here. One who, in my experience, is always the first to start with the name-calling (pussy, asshole, loser,...), who arrogantly refuses to provide facts to support his position when requested but instead demands that others prove him wrong and who broadly categorizes anything he doesnt agree with as biased or propaganda (including facts like text of laws).

If you think the discussions could be better, my suggestion is to start with the biggest deterrent.

I get that he is a "valued" member of the community. If the community wants to skirt around it and doesnt want to address, then so be it.

If that is the case, its no big deal. Those who want a more civil and respectful discussion of political issues will find it elsewhere.

added:
And, yes, I am guilty of responding in less than the most respectful manners at times, but I would urge you to look at the discussions in the totality.

UG's not a "valued member of the community" to me. I generally skip his posts except when I'm in a sarcastic, short tempered mood. You could post ANYTHING to UG and he'd either ignore it or else call you some unpleasant name.

I think next time I see one of his posts, I am going to reply by copying some segment of the Constitution purely as a scientific experiment. I wonder if he'll tell me to "put my crack pipe down."

I disagree with UT about forums that allow members to give rep points. The system seems to work pretty well on another forum I'm on. Of course that place is huge, and sometimes the number of rep points can help gauge a poster's reliability. But that forum is heavily moderated. In fact, I bet almost everyone from the Cellar would get banned from it in a few days! I'm always watching my step there.

Part of the reason I like this place is because I can type the word "fuck" and not have it censored. But part of the reason I don't like the politics forum is that vicious personal attacks are allowed - the language used there is far worse than "fuck."

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by SamIam

UG's not a "valued member of the community" to me. I generally skip his posts except when I'm in a sarcastic, short tempered mood. You could post ANYTHING to UG and he'd either ignore it or else call you some unpleasant name.

I think next time I see one of his posts, I am going to reply by copying some segment of the Constitution purely as a scientific experiment. I wonder if he'll tell me to "put my crack pipe down."

I disagree with UT about forums that allow members to give rep points. The system seems to work pretty well on another forum I'm on. Of course that place is huge, and sometimes the number of rep points can help gauge a poster's reliability. But that forum is heavily moderated. In fact, I bet almost everyone from the Cellar would get banned from it in a few days! I'm always watching my step there.

Part of the reason I like this place is because I can type the word "fuck" and not have it censored. But part of the reason I don't like the politics forum is that vicious personal attacks are allowed - the language used there is far worse than "fuck."

I've never had any interactions with UG, but I do get a good laugh out of his posts.

I guess I wasnt clear enough. In my experience, Mercenary is the primary instigator and the one who has two sets of rules, one for himself and one for those who challenge his opinions with their own.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

I've never had any interactions with UG, but I do get a good laugh out of his posts.

I guess I wasnt clear enough. In my experience, Mercenary is the primary instigator and the one who has two sets of rules, one for himself and one for those who challenge his opinions with their own.

I get fed up with Merc's disrespectful treatment of other posters and the way he posts long cut and pastes. I often skip his replies. However, I have communicated with Merc through PM's and he did me a kindness once. Perhaps, because of these things, he doesn't respond to me as virulently as he does to other dwellers. At any rate, this shows he can be civilized when he feels like it. He just seldom feels like it.

Originally Posted by Lookout123

And SIA, I'm glad you enjoy that other forum but if UT were to start something along those lines in the cellar I don't think it would work. Actually the cellar would probably become a much friendlier place but it would be at the cost of a large portion of long term dwellars.

Actually, we have very passionate debates on that board. I don't think rep points stop anyone, including me, from expressing their opinions. There, rep points are more about longevity on the board than they are anything else.

I don't see that rep points would make the cellar "friendlier," either. If UG, for example, had a string of red squares after his name, he'd probably take it as a sign that he's been successful at lambasting all us wimps. And if Merc or UG or the like gave me a negative rep, I'd consider it a badge of honor. But the Cellar is small enough that we really don't need score cards on the members, and I think people would ignore them, anyway.

It's been said a thousand times before, and I'll say it again. People who are interested in an intelligent debate and consider name calling the provenance of kindergarteners do just ignore the politics forum which is too bad. There's no point in having it as long as Merc and UG are allowed to attack anyone who suggests a different point of view than their own.

I don't like banning people, but maybe those two should be banned from that forum. Don't know if this is possible. But in the absence of any other solution, we should just rename "Politics" to the "Merc and UG Ugliness Forum." That way, new members like Jill would at least be warned.

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by SamIam

, we should just rename "Politics" to the "Merc and UG Ugliness Forum." That way, new members like Jill would at least be warned.

Go back some months or years and you could use other names. The instigators and asshats change and the people who are irritated change. Personally I don't think the politics forum ever really recovered from the 04 election. or was it the 06?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

That is not the case with one member here.

Then police yourself. If that one member is offering you no value then ignore them. You can either do that by just not reading the posts or by putting them on ignore status.

And SIA, I'm glad you enjoy that other forum but if UT were to start something along those lines in the cellar I don't think it would work. Actually the cellar would probably become a much friendlier place but it would be at the cost of a large portion of long term dwellars.

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Then police yourself. If that one member is offering you no value then ignore them. You can either do that by just not reading the posts or by putting them on ignore status.

And SIA, I'm glad you enjoy that other forum but if UT were to start something along those lines in the cellar I don't think it would work. Actually the cellar would probably become a much friendlier place but it would be at the cost of a large portion of long term dwellars.

Sure, I could ignore him.

But, looking at the bigger picture, I dont think that will make the political forum any better or more informative.

Rather than police myself, why not address the larger issue? Reading through this thread, I am not the only one who identified this problem person.

[lookout123]

Go ahead and move to get him banned. Even if the mods did ban him it wouldn't change the level of discourse on political issues because while merc's posting habits are so over the top he's really just an amplified example of what passes as political debate here. At the end of the day I don't really care if he stays or goes I just think it is silly to pretend he's the source of all the problems. If you really think he's a troll and adds no value then IGNORE him. If a troll is genuinely ignored then they aren't getting what they want and will either change or go away on their own.

It's kind of like the kindergartener saying "teacher teacher I don't like the way billy plays with the blocks. He won't do it the way I want him to." Fuck it. Don't play with him. Either he'll get bored having no friends to play with and change or he'll continue to be ignored.

[Flint]

100% Agree:

Originally Posted by lookout123

It's kind of like the kindergartener saying "teacher teacher I don't like the way billy plays with the blocks. He won't do it the way I want him to." Fuck it. Don't play with him. Either he'll get bored having no friends to play with and change or he'll continue to be ignored.

I am bewildered by the level of resistance towards concepts that my pre-kindergarten age children are aware of, and capable of practicing. We do not need more rules or moderation here. We do not want more rules or moderation here. If you are in favor of a "rules or moderation" solution, then you have the choice of either growing up and learning how adults interact, or fucking leaving the Cellar.

If you leave, don't feel like you need to make an announcement. Just go away and find someplace that you like.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Flint

100% Agree:

I am bewildered by the level of resistance towards concepts that my pre-kindergarten age children are aware of, and capable of practicing. We do not need more rules or moderation here. We do not want more rules or moderation here. If you are in favor of a "rules or moderation" solution, then you have the choice of either growing up and learning how adults interact, or fucking leaving the Cellar.
If you leave, don't feel like you need to make an announcement. Just go away and find someplace that you like.

The only people who have suggested moderation in one form or another, in this thread, are Undertoad, Aliantha, Limey, Footfootfoot, Griff and myself, though mine was a joke suggestion.

So, all these people are just childish idiots who need to grow the fuck up or leave the cellar?

Or was it aimed mainly at me? In which case it doesn't make a lot of sense as, my flippant comment about red and yellow cards aside, I have spent much of this thread arguing against increased moderation.

You have just characterised a bunch of people as childish because they have a different view of how the board might work to the one you hold. Whilst steadfastly refusing to engage with the issue at hand.


[eta] Twat.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by lookout123

It's kind of like the kindergartener saying "teacher teacher I don't like the way billy plays with the blocks. He won't do it the way I want him to." Fuck it. Don't play with him. Either he'll get bored having no friends to play with and change or he'll continue to be ignored.

Alternatively the rest of the kindergarteners simply abandon the idea of playing with the blocks altogether.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by DanaC

... childish idiots ...

I never said "idiots."



I did say "weak-minded fools" and "sloppy thinkers" but I never said "idiots."

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Flint

I never said "idiots."



I did say "weak-minded fools" and "sloppy thinkers" but I never said "idiots."

I was paraphrasing. Had I been quoting I'd have employed the quote box. Nice side step though.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I was paraphrasing.

I couldn't tell if it was "paraphrasing," a "joke suggestion," or simply a "flippant comment." Exactly which kinds of posts absolve you of reponsibility? Does that work just for you, or am I also allowed to be "flippant" in your brave new world?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Flint

I never said "idiots."



I did say "weak-minded fools" and "sloppy thinkers" but I never said "idiots."

/waves/These are not the insults you're looking for/jedi hand/