Saddam to Swing

[Ibby]

I refuse to swat mosquitoes unless they are actively biting me, or flying close enough to me that I have to assume it's ABOUT to bite me. If it is outside, I'm not going to go out there, find it, and swat it so it cant magically come through the window and bite me.

I feel the same about the death penalty.

I do see your point UG, and agreed with it for half of my life... it just does not work, logically or ethically, for me any longer. My actions must follow.

There is a world of difference, practically and ethically (no metaphors here), between the guy rushing you or potentially having a gun in your home, and the one in a cage with a life sentence or strapped to a chair.
What someone may do and what they are doing is the distinction.
(no one make the point that you never really know if someone you are defending yourself against is really trying to kill you, that is a red herring and you know it. Breathing in a cage is NOT actively posing a threat.)

[xoxoxoBruce]

OK, you can pay my share of keeping him in that cage for the next 50 or 60 years.

It is more expensive to murder an inmate than to keep them for life. FAR more expensive.
If you would take the cost of the murder over the housing... deal!

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It is more expensive to murder an inmate than to keep them for life. FAR more expensive.
If you would take the cost of the murder over the housing... deal!

Absolutely. This is the easiest "pro-death penalty" issue there is to argue. Death row inmates are separated from the rest of the jail community. They do not participate in any work that inmates do that help defray the costs of the prison running. Not to mention the really expensive appeals and such that go on for YEARS.

Plus, it's not a deterrent, never has been, never will be.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Absolutely. This is the easiest "pro-death penalty" issue there is to argue. Death row inmates are separated from the rest of the jail community. They do not participate in any work that inmates do that help defray the costs of the prison running. Not to mention the really expensive appeals and such that go on for YEARS.

Plus, it's not a deterrent, never has been, never will be.

It worked when the gallows was next to the court house. It's the anti-death penalty people that make it so damn expensive. :p

Aside from that whole "ethics thing".

[Ibby]

Plus, even if it were true, arguing that its okay to execute them because its cheaper is simply putting a price on life, and is morally reprehensible and wrong, because nobody's life or death should be determined by how financially beneficial it is to you.

We also miss out on the benefits of study. Henry Lee Lucas did not begin to cooperate with his captors, the FBI and his therapists for twelve years. Some serials have waited as long as seventeen.
How many lives have been saved due to what we have learned from these minds... how many have been lost due to the murders of so many others solely for vengeances sake?
One was too many, it has been many hundred that, I am sure.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

We also miss out on the benefits of study. Henry Lee Lucas did not begin to cooperate with his captors, the FBI and his therapists for twelve years. Some serials have waited as long as seventeen.
How many lives have been saved due to what we have learned from these minds... how many have been lost due to the murders of so many others solely for vengeances sake?
One was too many, it has been many hundred that, I am sure.

Benefits of study? What did they find out besides they were nuts? How did this studying these creeps benefit the population?

When the next wacko kills 10 people, the shrinks understanding why, doesn't help one bit...... especially to the victims.

[QUOTE-Shawnee123]I don't know. I think you're almost putting someone out of their misery by ending their life. I think it would be worse to spend the rest of your life in prison, but perhaps that isn't how criminals think.[/quote] If they were chained to a dungeon wall, perhaps. But living in relative comfort with access to reading materials and sometimes TV, don't think so.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

When the next wacko kills 10 people, the shrinks understanding why, doesn't help one bit...... especially to the victims.

That depends on just how much the concept of an FBI profiler is a hollywood creation.

[xoxoxoBruce]

True, I hadn't considered that angle.

Originally Posted by yesman065

Just a question here NOT an opinion. Would the death penalty actually function as a deterrent if it was carried out MUCH faster? I agree with you to a point rz, but if the death penalty actually worked at preventing someone from committing a crime (which I don't think it does now) how many lives would be saved. Furthermore, the cost on society and the ability to shift the funds spent keeping these criminals alive were shifted to rehab programs or any of many other viable options would that save even more lives?? I don't know and I don't think our society would ever do it, but it does merit some thought at least - no?

In places where it has been used in that way, it did not work and does not now in places that try. This point has been made earlier in this thread or another in which we were discussing this topic.
I don't think it merits thought, because I don't feel it is worth becoming a murderer just to seek vengeance.
More death and destruction does not solve anything, it only does more harm to us and continues the cycle.

[yesman065]

Just a question here NOT an opinion. Would the death penalty actually function as a deterrent if it was carried out MUCH faster? I agree with you to a point rz, but if the death penalty actually worked at preventing someone from committing a crime (which I don't think it does now) how many lives would be saved. Furthermore, the cost on society and the ability to shift the funds spent keeping these criminals alive were shifted to rehab programs or any of many other viable options would that save even more lives?? I don't know and I don't think our society would ever do it, but it does merit some thought at least - no?

Originally Posted by yesman065

Just a question here NOT an opinion. Would the death penalty actually function as a deterrent if it was carried out MUCH faster? I agree with you to a point rz, but if the death penalty actually worked at preventing someone from committing a crime (which I don't think it does now) how many lives would be saved. Furthermore, the cost on society and the ability to shift the funds spent keeping these criminals alive were shifted to rehab programs or any of many other viable options would that save even more lives?? I don't know and I don't think our society would ever do it, but it does merit some thought at least - no?

It has been mentioned earlier that, no, in nations, and in times past, where it has been, and is, used "liberally" plenty of people commit plenty of murder.
A violent culture breeds more violence.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It worked when the gallows was next to the court house. It's the anti-death penalty people that make it so damn expensive. :p

Actually it did not, there were plenty of necks for the noose.
Plus we would have to ignore all the innocent people we would murder (on top of all those we do now) by getting rid of the appeals process... despite the whole "cruel and unusual punishment thing". But, you don't seem to mind that.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Benefits of study? What did they find out besides they were nuts? How did this studying these creeps benefit the population?

When the next wacko kills 10 people, the shrinks understanding why, doesn't help one bit...... especially to the victims.

If they were chained to a dungeon wall, perhaps. But living in relative comfort with access to reading materials and sometimes TV, don't think so.

There is no such thing as just "nuts", everyone does everthing they do for a reason.
Again... our nation was founded to remove us from tyrants, and keep us from becoming tyrants who practice cruel and unusual punishments.