If you outlaw guns, then only.... - Page 7

Spexxvet · 10-08-2006, 10:00 AM

I feel better now.

Spexxvet · 10-08-2006, 02:07 PM

My doors and windows have locks.

Ibby · 10-08-2006, 08:29 PM

Dayum, maggs, I think she's right this time, chill out a bit dearie.

Ibby · 10-09-2006, 03:53 AM

Quote:

What about the one about the bavarian creme pie? There's no truth to that! Nobody who's about to die goes thousands of miles for a slice of pie, then when they don't have it just says 'okay, I'll have the coffee then'!

10-10-2006, 03:49 AM

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them." ~George Mason~

"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." —Jeff Snyder

TJ on Disarming Public
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for
the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage
than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater
confidence than an armed man."
-Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.”
-- Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (February 6, 1788).

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.”
-- Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 45 (Virginia Convention, June 5, 1788).

“God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.”
-- Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955).

“I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
-- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426, June 16, 1788

“If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person
were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified
in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would
be justified in silencing mankind.”- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

“He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard
even his enemy from opposition: for if he violates this duty he
establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. ”- Thomas Paine,
Dissertation On First Principles Of Government

“The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.” - Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

Spexxvet · 10-10-2006, 09:16 AM

If guns are that important to maintaining freedom and liberty, wouldn't tanks, anthrax, nerve gas and nukular weapons be even better?

Undertoad · 10-10-2006, 09:17 AM

If guns are the critical factor to maintaining freedom and liberty, why isn't Iraq free? It's loaded with guns.

mrnoodle · 10-11-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

If guns are the critical factor to maintaining freedom and liberty, why isn't Iraq free? It's loaded with guns.

In one sense, they're a case study for gun rights. The most powerful army on the face of the earth has not been able to subjegate one of the most backwater shitholes in existence, because the occupants of that shithole have guns and a desire to keep us out.

If they had any sense to go along with their guns, they'd have some electricity and running water by now.

Griff · 10-11-2006, 07:52 AM

I'd say that culture has more to do with maintaining freedom and liberty, something we tried to tell George before he went in there. That said, I can't imagine giving up my weapon in a place like Iraq. I'd say the gun supports the culture but when the culture slips and the necessity for the gun appears I'd rather more stable folks were armed. The anthropomorphizing of these tools by the left is leading to a shift in the gun culture where only truly passionate right wingers will be armed. I'd rather the less politicized took it upon themselves.

Ibby · 10-10-2006, 09:21 AM

They're trying, don't you keep hearing the reports of more and more deaths there?

To (some of) them, killing Americans LEADS to freedom. Freedom from American opression.

Spexxvet · 10-10-2006, 10:25 AM

North Korea should be very free, now that they have nukular weapons.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-10-2006, 10:34 AM

"People should not be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of their people"

footfootfoot · 10-10-2006, 10:14 PM

I'm having a hard time keeping all the genuinely bad people sorted out. UG, are the the one who poops in tackle boxes or is that someone else? What, if anything have you done that's really really bad? Doesn't have to be poop related? Is there a mnemonic device that would help me remember that you are bad?

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-10-2006, 10:29 PM

Um, can't think of one offhand. Probably a good sign.

This is the first I've heard of the tackle box thing. Sounds like a real eyebrow raiser.

Ibby · 10-10-2006, 11:17 PM

UG, you'll just have to accept that I think you are nothing but a big-talking, annoying, brainlessly conservative, arrogant, lying, self-centered moron.

10-08-2006, 10:00 AM	#1
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	I feel better now. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-08-2006, 02:07 PM	#2
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	My doors and windows have locks. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-08-2006, 08:29 PM	#3
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Dayum, maggs, I think she's right this time, chill out a bit dearie. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

10-10-2006, 09:16 AM	#6
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	If guns are that important to maintaining freedom and liberty, wouldn't tanks, anthrax, nerve gas and nukular weapons be even better? __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-11-2006, 07:52 AM	#9
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I'd say that culture has more to do with maintaining freedom and liberty, something we tried to tell George before he went in there. That said, I can't imagine giving up my weapon in a place like Iraq. I'd say the gun supports the culture but when the culture slips and the necessity for the gun appears I'd rather more stable folks were armed. The anthropomorphizing of these tools by the left is leading to a shift in the gun culture where only truly passionate right wingers will be armed. I'd rather the less politicized took it upon themselves. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-10-2006, 03:49 AM	#5
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them." ~George Mason~ "To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding." —Jeff Snyder TJ on Disarming Public "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria “And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87 (February 6, 1788). “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.” -- Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 45 (Virginia Convention, June 5, 1788). “God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.” -- Thomas Jefferson to William S. Smith on Nov. 13, 1787. The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd, vol. 12, p. 356 (1955). “I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.” -- George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426, June 16, 1788 “If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”- John Stuart Mill, On Liberty “He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition: for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. ”- Thomas Paine, Dissertation On First Principles Of Government “The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.” - Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

10-10-2006, 09:17 AM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If guns are the critical factor to maintaining freedom and liberty, why isn't Iraq free? It's loaded with guns.

10-10-2006, 09:21 AM	#10
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	They're trying, don't you keep hearing the reports of more and more deaths there? To (some of) them, killing Americans LEADS to freedom. Freedom from American opression. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

10-10-2006, 10:25 AM	#11
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	North Korea should be very free, now that they have nukular weapons. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-10-2006, 10:34 AM	#12
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	"People should not be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of their people"

10-10-2006, 10:14 PM	#13
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I'm having a hard time keeping all the genuinely bad people sorted out. UG, are the the one who poops in tackle boxes or is that someone else? What, if anything have you done that's really really bad? Doesn't have to be poop related? Is there a mnemonic device that would help me remember that you are bad? __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

10-10-2006, 10:29 PM	#14
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Um, can't think of one offhand. Probably a good sign. This is the first I've heard of the tackle box thing. Sounds like a real eyebrow raiser. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

10-10-2006, 11:17 PM	#15
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	UG, you'll just have to accept that I think you are nothing but a big-talking, annoying, brainlessly conservative, arrogant, lying, self-centered moron. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

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