The New Bailout

[TheMercenary]

The largely partisan vote was a rebuke to Obama, who campaigned on a pledge to bridge the divide between parties. In his early days in office, he wooed Republican members of Congress at the White House and on Capitol Hill, an effort that didn't produce votes last week.

While Obama pushed for bipartisanship, Republicans honed their opposition to the bill. GOP lawmakers are nearly united in their view that the measure is loaded with pork-barrel spending and will be ineffective in creating jobs. They also complain that the measure was crafted behind closed doors with no Republican input, despite promises of transparency.

House Republican Leader John Boehner, R.-Ohio, said last week that not one House member had read the bill, which came in at more than 1,000 pages.

On Tuesday, Rep. Boehner called the bill "a missed opportunity, one for which our children and grandchildren will pay a hefty price. It's a raw deal for American families."

Despite the party-line passage of the bill, President Obama painted it as a broad victory: "It is a rare thing in Washington for people with such different viewpoints to come together and support the same bill," he said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1234...cle-outset-box

[TheMercenary]

Financial gloom was everywhere Tuesday.

On Wall Street, the Dow Jones industrial average came within sight of its lowest levels in more than a decade. Financial shares were battered. And rattled investors clamored to buy rainy-day investments like gold and Treasury debt. Markets from Hong Kong to Stockholm to London also staggered lower.

It was a global wave of selling spurred by rising worries about how banks, automakers - entire countries - would fare in a deepening recession.

At the close, the Dow was down more than 297.81 points, at 7,552.60 points, a drop of 3.79 percent. The index was just a few fractions of a point away from its lows of Nov. 20, when financial markets plummeted to their lowest point in a decade. The only Dow stock to trade consistently in positive territory on The only Dow stock to trade consistently in positive territory was Wal-Mart, which rose after reporting better-than-expected profit.

The broader Standard & Poor's 500-stock index slid 37.67 points, or 4.5 percent, to 789.17 points, unable to cling to what analysts said was an important trading threshold.

GM takes union talks down to the wire
"If we get substantially below 800 then look out below," said Marc Groz, chief investment officer at Topos, a risk-advisory firm in Greenwich, Connecticut.

The Nasdaq composite index closed 63.70 points lower, down 4.1 percent, at 1,470.66 points.

The downward spiral came as President Obama signed the $787 billion economic stimulus package and executives at General Motors and Chrysler prepared to submit major restructuring plans to the U.S. government after receiving billions in bailout money.

General Motors stock, which was more than $25 last February, was trading lower on Tuesday, at about $2.15 a share. Shares of the Ford Motor, which has not received any bailout funds, were down 5 percent.

Analysts said investors were still nervous about the U.S. Treasury Department's plans to shore up the financial system and help remove billions of dollars in troubled mortgage-related assets from the balance sheets of major banks.

"The administration is great at floating the rumors, but we need concrete plans to back that up," said Ryan Larson, head equity trader at Voyageur Asset Management. "Without any further concreted details, the market's really left to wonder. And in this environment, they wonder the worst-case scenario."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/...18marketsA.php

[TGRR]

I love this decade.

[classicman]

I refuse to post for fear that my negativity will detract from all the wonderful stuff this thing is supposed to do.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by classicman

I refuse to post for fear that my negativity will detract from all the wonderful things this thing is supposed to do.

I gotcher back.

This shit is asinine. I mean really, tragically STUPID. Jesus H Christ, what the HELL is that man thinking? Trashing our dollar for some badly worded, easy exploited pork barrels isn't going to help a GODDAMN thing.

Bush leaving office: Here, bankers, have some zeros.

Obama entering office: Here, everydamnbody, have some zeros.

We have many zeros. In fact, it's all we have.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by TGRR

I gotcher back.

This shit is asinine. I mean really, tragically STUPID. Jesus H Christ, what the HELL is that man thinking? Trashing our dollar for some badly worded, easy exploited pork barrels isn't going to help a GODDAMN thing.

Bush leaving office: Here, bankers, have some zeros.

Obama entering office: Here, everydamnbody, have some zeros.

We have many zeros. In fact, it's all we have.

Say it dude.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Say it dude.

75 billion more in mortgage relief, proposed by Obama today.

Sometimes this shit makes me laugh until I can't stop screaming.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TGRR

75 billion more in mortgage relief, proposed by Obama today.

Sometimes this shit makes me laugh until I can't stop screaming.

That will be coming from the $350 billion TARP funds. It is not added money. It was already approved before Bush left office. And the TARP was supposed to be for mortgage relief to stop forclosures, instead Hank Paulson gave the first $350 billion to banks. The banks, instead of using it to help people in foreclosure by rewriting mortgages, held onto the money or used it to buy other banks. They have done nothing to help to stop the problems they created. The housing market is where this all started, so do you think we should just continue to ignore that aspect of this mess?

[tw]

Remember last year when GM said it had enough cash reserves to survive? It only needed a few $billion? Remember others here who so hated American and humanity as to buy their crap ... and recommend it? Now from satan lovers - also called MBAs -

G.M. Raises Loan Request by $12 Billion
The price tag for bailing out General Motors and Chrysler jumped by another $14 billion Tuesday, to $39 billion, with the two automakers saying they would need the additional aid from the federal government to remain solvent.

The entire market value of GM is $1.33 billion. So GM - with numerous crappy products - deserves another $10billion.

They only needed a few $billon a few months ago because the scumbags said the problem is not in GM; the problem is the economy. Yes, if you are Rick Wagoner, and MBA, and therefore still in denial. Many Cellar dwellers do not know how this man just put their jobs at risk.

What changed? Why has GM increased a few $billion into $30billion? Because GM did not declare bankruptcy and expel Wagoner. GM is still ignoring their problems - only doing enough to beg for more free government money.

GM must eliminate Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, and Hummer. Closing only two divisions will no longer be sufficient because Wagoner et al has done nothing. It will not end there. A previous prediction of two divisions is now woefully insufficient. Wagoner expects more corporate welfare. Will not address these problems. Cannot address problems when spread sheet games continue to stifle innovation - as any properly trained MBA does.

All automakers are hurting. However a patriot understands why bankruptcy eliminates problems - especially top management. 85% of all problems are where? Eliminate real problems so that companies that have been addressing the problem for seven plus years now - Ford, Toyota, Honda - will save America.

Just like in Lehman Bros. Richard Fuld remained in denial because rich executives are too important to not receive corporate welfare. Now that GM and Chrysler will get more free money, other American companies will not address a nationwide problem. That means your job is at risk or already lost.

A headline in the New York Post, to save your job, should read: "Obama to GM - drop dead". It caused 1979 Chrysler and 1981 Ford to eliminate their only problems. It caused NYC to stop playing money games on spread sheets. Therefore jobs were not lost. Instead numerous other companies began asking embarrassing questions of their top executives. Instead GM will remain so much in denial as Wagoner believes GM deserves to be saved.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Often threats of bankruptcy are necessary to fix such problems - not just in GM. Also in your employer.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by tw

GM must eliminate Saab, Saturn, Pontiac, and Hummer.

Saab just filed for bankruptcy, thus allowing GM to sell.

It turns out the Swedish government was not interested in a bailout plan, opting instead to send them to bankruptcy. Huh. If only the US were as capitalist a country as Sweden...

GM killed a great brand. Saabs used to be the coolest thing on the roads. Now they are bland pieces of shit. Maybe they can be resurrected.

[glatt]

I was just thinking the same thing yesterday. Back in the 80s, Saabs were everywhere. I haven't seen one on the road in ages. GM killed the company. Or at least made the cars so bland I don't even see them when they are driving around.

[glatt]

I just found this graph of Saab sales over the years. They grew steadily during the 80s and peaked in 87, which is around the time I remember I started seeing them everywhere. Then they took a nosedive.

Partway though the nosedive, GM acquired a majority stake in them (1990,) and slowly started to grow the brand again in the early-mid 90s. Then about 3-4 years ago, they took a nosedive again.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by glatt

I just found this graph of Saab sales over the years. They grew steadily during the 80s and peaked in 87, which is around the time I remember I started seeing them everywhere. Then they took a nosedive.

Partway though the nosedive, GM acquired a majority stake in them (1990,) and slowly started to grow the brand again in the early-mid 90s. Then about 3-4 years ago, they took a nosedive again.

I just read in the paper this morning that GM couldn't find a buyer for Saab, so they are shutting it down.

That's it. Saab had a nice run and produced some neat cars, but now they have gone the way of the Studebaker. Good bye Saab.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Saab just filed for bankruptcy, thus allowing GM to sell.

It turns out the Swedish government was not interested in a bailout plan, opting instead to send them to bankruptcy. Huh. If only the US were as capitalist a country as Sweden...

GM killed a great brand. Saabs used to be the coolest thing on the roads. Now they are bland pieces of shit. Maybe they can be resurrected.

GM also killed the electric car. The company should just be sold off to the highest bidder. Why are we paying so much more than the company is even worth?

And Chrysler is a private corporation owned by wealthy hedge funds. So why the hell are we bailing them out? Shouldn't they use their own money?

[TheMercenary]

And people bitch about how much Bush ran up the deficit. This guy is going for a record.