Berkeley City Council Doing Its Anti-Democracy Bit - Page 6

classicman · 02-11-2008, 10:03 PM

Ibby, I have so much to say to that, but I think it will be said and taken much better by Reg Joe or Merc. All I can say is you have absolutely no perspective.

TheMercenary · 02-12-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Ibby, I have so much to say to that, but I think it will be said and taken much better by Reg Joe or Merc. All I can say is you have absolutely no perspective.

Given the responses up to post #93 it would be a complete waste of time trying to explain it. His mind is made up.

Ibby · 02-11-2008, 10:29 PM

I do not believe, in the slightest, that any of our overseas involvement ever (except, like i said, maybe japan) has been in defense of my or any other american's freedom. Sure, maybe 1812, spanish-american wars... but they were on home soil, not overseas. Thats not to say there weren't good reasons for them - taking on germany in WWII, n. korea in the fifties, both of those were fairly okay - but certainly not lately by any means. Meanwhile, the military is the only organization completely free, legally speaking, to discriminate by gender, sexuality, any prettymuch whatever other factor they wish, as well as the only organization in the united states that completely deprives its members of their rights (effectively turning almost all rights into privileges, and since they can arrest you for disobeying an order and can order you to do anything that isnt illegal)...

but mostly i don't believe the argument that theyre 'defending our freedoms' because every single immediate threat i can see to my freedom is completely within the USA. Theocrats, neocons, right-wing hate groups... all actively trying to take away my rights, or keep me from gaining them. You can't say the same about anyone else in the world. Just cause fundamentalists and extremists and communists want to take away my rights, in a broad eventual sense, theyre not actively doing so. Theyre all a lot more occupied at home, for one thing.

classicman · 02-11-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

Just cause fundamentalists and extremists and communists want to take away my rights, in a broad eventual sense, theyre not actively doing so.

Gee I wonder why? Lemme think on that a bit.

Ibby · 02-11-2008, 10:41 PM

Its not our military, as anything but a deterrent. Which once more brings us back around to, i'm against the idea of using the military except in cases of actual invasion. Reduce it to a national guard force, not an international police force (or, alternatively, armed gang).
They arent doing it for the same reason we aren't forcibly making china a democracy. Its a pipe dream, a fantasy, not a realistic short-term goal.

classicman · 02-11-2008, 10:45 PM

and how exactly did our military become a deterrent?

Ibby · 02-12-2008, 03:15 AM

Who was the last nation to invade switzerland?
oh, thats right, nobody.
whos the last person they invaded?
oh, thats right, nobody.

Undertoad · 02-12-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

Who was the last nation to invade switzerland?
oh, thats right, nobody.
whos the last person they invaded?
oh, thats right, nobody.

All one needs to avoid military conflict is to become a mountainous nation (that's the hard part), and give the entire nation high-powered rifles and train them to be snipers (the easy part).

DanaC · 02-12-2008, 05:07 AM

Wow. Classicman do you really believe there's an external threat to your way of life right now? Do you believe your freedoms are under threat from an external enemy?

That's scary. That's really scary.

classicman · 02-12-2008, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Wow. Classicman do you really believe there's an external threat to your way of life right now? Do you believe your freedoms are under threat from an external enemy?

That's scary. That's really scary.

no there aren't any threats to us - 9/11 never really happened - just like we never landed on the moon.

Ibby · 02-12-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

no there aren't any threats to us - 9/11 never really happened - just like we never landed on the moon.

A threat to our safety is not a threat to our freedom.
we should have a national guard to defend our security, like I said... but our military doesn't really help defend our freedom.

Ibby · 02-12-2008, 09:44 AM

If you can justify militarism and invasion/occupation to me without sounding like UG... have at it. My mind is NEVER as made up as it sounds, trust me. I'm a teenager after all, right?

Undertoad · 02-12-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

A threat to our safety is not a threat to our freedom

Further threats to our safety will lead to the full-on demand of further loss of freedoms.

TheMercenary · 02-12-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Further threats to our safety will lead to the full-on demand of further loss of freedoms.

You can take that to the bank. Another 9/11 style attack will become the test of our Constitution as we know it. I am not agreeing or disagreeing that changes would have to be made.

Griff · 02-12-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You can take that to the bank. Another 9/11 style attack will become the test of our Constitution as we know it. I am not agreeing or disagreeing that changes would have to be made.

We failed the pop quiz we're gonna get rolled on the test.

Regarding the mountains; we had oceans at one point but I guess they dried up. I agree with Ibby's general tone.

02-11-2008, 10:03 PM	#1
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Ibby, I have so much to say to that, but I think it will be said and taken much better by Reg Joe or Merc. All I can say is you have absolutely no perspective. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

02-11-2008, 10:29 PM	#3
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I do not believe, in the slightest, that any of our overseas involvement ever (except, like i said, maybe japan) has been in defense of my or any other american's freedom. Sure, maybe 1812, spanish-american wars... but they were on home soil, not overseas. Thats not to say there weren't good reasons for them - taking on germany in WWII, n. korea in the fifties, both of those were fairly okay - but certainly not lately by any means. Meanwhile, the military is the only organization completely free, legally speaking, to discriminate by gender, sexuality, any prettymuch whatever other factor they wish, as well as the only organization in the united states that completely deprives its members of their rights (effectively turning almost all rights into privileges, and since they can arrest you for disobeying an order and can order you to do anything that isnt illegal)... but mostly i don't believe the argument that theyre 'defending our freedoms' because every single immediate threat i can see to my freedom is completely within the USA. Theocrats, neocons, right-wing hate groups... all actively trying to take away my rights, or keep me from gaining them. You can't say the same about anyone else in the world. Just cause fundamentalists and extremists and communists want to take away my rights, in a broad eventual sense, theyre not actively doing so. Theyre all a lot more occupied at home, for one thing. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

02-11-2008, 10:41 PM	#5
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Its not our military, as anything but a deterrent. Which once more brings us back around to, i'm against the idea of using the military except in cases of actual invasion. Reduce it to a national guard force, not an international police force (or, alternatively, armed gang). They arent doing it for the same reason we aren't forcibly making china a democracy. Its a pipe dream, a fantasy, not a realistic short-term goal. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

02-11-2008, 10:45 PM	#6
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	and how exactly did our military become a deterrent? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

02-12-2008, 03:15 AM	#7
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	Who was the last nation to invade switzerland? oh, thats right, nobody. whos the last person they invaded? oh, thats right, nobody. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

02-12-2008, 05:07 AM	#9
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Wow. Classicman do you really believe there's an external threat to your way of life right now? Do you believe your freedoms are under threat from an external enemy? That's scary. That's really scary.

02-12-2008, 09:44 AM	#12
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	If you can justify militarism and invasion/occupation to me without sounding like UG... have at it. My mind is NEVER as made up as it sounds, trust me. I'm a teenager after all, right? __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode