Jonathan Pie explains it

[Griff]

It may be that they've been forced to cover it now, after all this time.

[classicman]

We have a deadline now that the Gov't has spoken. It will be THE STORY for the next few days.

[Undertoad]

[Griff]

Bloom County has had the best commentary on this. Social media is driving the news cycle now I guess witness the pipline shutdown. The optics of shooting veterans in 2016 are worse than shooting veterans in 1932.

[classicman]

... ... or kids on a college campus in 1970.

[Undertoad]

The brilliant Anthony Bourdain explains it

You're a liberal. What should liberals be critiquing their own side for?

The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we're seeing now...

The self-congratulatory tone of the privileged left—just repeating and repeating and repeating the outrages of the opposition—this does not win hearts and minds. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. It only solidifies them, and makes things worse for all of us. We should be breaking bread with each other, and finding common ground whenever possible. I fear that is not at all what we've done.

A few years back you were on Real Time with Bill Maher and part of the discussion was about people living inside their own bubbles. What do you think of Bill Maher?

Insufferably smug. Really the worst of the smug, self-congratulatory left. I have a low opinion of him. I did not have an enjoyable experience on his show. Not a show I plan to do again. He's a classic example of the smirking, contemptuous, privileged guy who lives in a bubble. And he is in no way looking to reach outside, or even look outside, of that bubble, in an empathetic way.

[Griff]

smrt

[xoxoxoBruce]

Aw, you're just saying that because he agrees with you.








Me too.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The brilliant Anthony Bourdain explains it

You're a liberal. What should liberals be critiquing their own side for?



A few years back you were on Real Time with Bill Maher and part of the discussion was about people living inside their own bubbles. What do you think of Bill Maher?

So I watched an episode of Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown last night. A self-described North East liberal, he went to New Mexico and showed a deep appreciation of culture, food culture, gun culture, rural culture, native culture, Spanish culture, hybrid culture, all culture. When I think about where we are right now in our cultural bubbles, I see this attitude as the cure. I remember civics classes when I was a kid, they celebrated America and Americans. Somewhere along the way our politics lost room for other ways of being. Our diversity could be our strength but the left needs to know that diversity is broader than race and gender, it is cultural.

The pig roast is important as well.

[Pico and ME]

I work in a factory with fellow union employees who are conservative republicans and vote republican no matter what, which a lot of times was not in their best interest. (Yet, they would scorn anyone who drove a non Chrysler/Dodge product into the parking lot and even maybe turn it over on its side).

There is absolutely no talking to them about it. None, zip. Its God and country all the way. They are not interested in hearing anything different. I work next to them and sometimes I have tried to say things like since Reagan, unions have been in big trouble because of republican politicians voting yes on bills that are anti-worker/union. These are people who voted republican again even after Indiana passed the right-to-work law. OMG, don't even try to reason with them, they will not listen.

I don't try anymore. Yes, I know I am in my own bubble, and I know that it makes me a big outsider to the people I live and work with. I will not talk at all about my ideas, it gets me in trouble around here.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

(Yet, they would scorn anyone who drove a non Chrysler/Dodge product into the parking lot and even maybe turn it over on its side).

Do they not know Chrysler is owned by Fiat - an Italian company?

[Undertoad]

I have had co-workers like that - the Narcissist, a huge one -- and it's the most annoying thing in the world.

vote republican no matter what, which a lot of times was not in their best interest

I hear this one a lot and I think it's a misinterpretation of how voters operate.

Culture > practical considerations, every time

And here's a very personal example. If Trump gets rid of the H1B Visa program, I will DOUBLE my salary in a year and be basically set for life. This is not a joke. The H1B Visa program has kind of unfairly targeted my area of expertise, and mainly in big metropolitan areas where I am.

In fact it's *one* of the reasons why I wound up shit out of luck a few years back. After the bubble burst we had a combination of 500,000 fewer IT jobs in the country and about 300,000 H1B Visa IT workers still competing for the rest of them.

Ask anyone in a big corporation in the NY/SF metro area. "Oh, the IT department? It's like the UN over there. Indians, Chinese, Russians..."

Now does that mean I should, very obviously and clearly, vote for Trump?

I think you think NOT, right?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Exactly how it works for most voters. They seize on one or two issues that directly pertain to them, and dismiss everything else. Even if the candidate only hinted at the issue, or didn't, but their buddy/club/news article said the candidate would.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I have had co-workers like that - the Narcissist, a huge one -- and it's the most annoying thing in the world.



I hear this one a lot and I think it's a misinterpretation of how voters operate.

Culture > practical considerations, every time

And here's a very personal example. If Trump gets rid of the H1B Visa program, I will DOUBLE my salary in a year and be basically set for life. This is not a joke. The H1B Visa program has kind of unfairly targeted my area of expertise, and mainly in big metropolitan areas where I am.

In fact it's *one* of the reasons why I wound up shit out of luck a few years back. After the bubble burst we had a combination of 500,000 fewer IT jobs in the country and about 300,000 H1B Visa IT workers still competing for the rest of them.

Ask anyone in a big corporation in the NY/SF metro area. "Oh, the IT department? It's like the UN over there. Indians, Chinese, Russians..."

Now does that mean I should, very obviously and clearly, vote for Trump?

I think you think NOT, right?

Oh God NO! Trump is maybe going to do a lot of business and industry a lot of good....all over the world. Probably mostly for him and his family though. What I don't get is how anyone believes him. Hes already gone against several of his promises. I hope he does get rid of the H1B visa (if just for you). Do you believe he will? Do you believe Trump is not part of the 'establishment', as so many who voted for him, feel? My stepson believes that he will put a 30% tariff on imports, because he said he would. Do think he will be able to do that?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

My stepson believes that he will put a 30% tariff on imports, because he said he would. Do think he will be able to do that?

Trump has clearly taken lying to a whole new level. However, history demonstrates that people who do this often have significant short term successes. Because they can do the completely opposite. The opposition does not expect it. And supporters of these types of people are willing to accept anything as true.

Reagan cut taxes. He said so. So it must have happened. Reality- taxes increased. But that requires learning facts instead of spin. Reagan increased taxes and got so many to *know* he reduced taxes.

Doing something completely different from what was said creates the element of surprise. One constantly praises Putin and his ego while doing what? Interesting will be if Trump follows through on his lies. Or does what most every informed politicians is saying - Putin is a threat that must be confronted. Will he do so while still praising Putin? Liars play both sides very well. But only for so long.