16 illegals sue Arizona rancher

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

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In other words, this guy was doing what he should have done. IMO, vigilante-ism would have come into play if he'd have shot them on sight. And if he loses this case, and has to pay illegals millions of dollars, do you really think he *won't* do that in the future?
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The more I think about shit like this, the more I want to move out of this God forsaken place.

Was he doing "what he should have done" in this case:

Today, the Arizona Supreme Court rejected the appeal of border vigilante Roger Barnett who was found liable by a jury after assaulting a family of Latino U.S. citizens while they were hunting on state land in southern Arizona....

The Morales family and Emma English, a family friend, filed suit after Barnett confronted them on state leased land in November 2004, while they were on a family hunting trip. Armed with a semi-automatic military-style assault rifle, Barnett held the family at gunpoint, cursed and screamed racial slurs at them and threatened to kill them all. The jury heard the testimony of three young girls, all under the age of 12 at the time, that vividly described the event and the trauma they suffered at the hands of Barnett. The jury ultimately awarded the family $100,000 in damages, which Barnett must pay now that the Supreme Court has rejected his appeal.

http://www.maldef.org/news/press.cfm...&FromIndex=yes

*****

It was Oct. 30, 2004. Morales, a 37-year-old Department of Defense employee, was deer hunting with his father, Arturo, and three little girls: his daughter, Vanese, who was then 11, her little sister Angelique, 9, and Emma English, a friend who was also 11. All were Mexican-Americans — U.S. citizens since birth.

The way Ron Morales tells the story, around 4 p.m. he and his eldest daughter left the rest of the party at his truck to stalk a buck they had spotted.

Vanese had the deer in her crosshairs when the sound of a distant ruckus in the direction of the truck alarmed her father. Morales took the rifle, slung it over his shoulder, and they hurried back.

They arrived to find another truck parked near their own. Next to it, Morales says, an angry white man with a pistol strapped to his side paced back and forth, shouting obscenities. "You're fucking trespassing! You guys need to get the fuck out of here!"

"I have a hunter's permit, I have a map," Morales protested as he walked to his vehicle, set down his rifle, grabbed a Bureau of Land Management map, and tried to reason with the man.

Morales, a Navy veteran, says he addressed him as "sir" and asked his name. The man reached in the cab of his truck, yanked out an AR-15 assault rifle, and gave Morales his answer.

"My fucking name is Roger Barnett! If you don't get off my property, I'm gonna shoot you and shoot you and shoot you!"

Then, Morales says, Barnett chambered a round and pointed his weapon at Morales' chest.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intel...le.jsp?aid=758

The more I think about shit like this, the more I worry about extremist vigilantes like Roger Barnett not being willing or able to distinguish between protecting their property rights as opposed to taking the law into their own hands in a violent and illegal manner.

[glatt]

Roger Barnett is an asshole who belongs in jail.

[dmg1969]

Well, maybe this will be one step further in showing the government how fed up we are about illegal immigrants.

[sugarpop]

I don't understand why the government is so unwilling to deal with this problem.

...nvm, yes I do. It's because corporate America wants cheap labor, and corporate America gets what they want.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Redux

Was he doing "what he should have done" in this case:

No, Morales was not on this guy's private property. Ranch owner was wrong in that case, but not in this one.

I see a slippery slope among some of the vigilantes, including Barnett...perhaps you dont.

This is worth re-posting:

You a lawyer?" he asked with a sneer. "You're full of shit. I can stop 'em out on the road if I want. Didn't you hear what Bush said? Everybody needs to be vigilant and help the homeland security. I can do whatever I want." - Roger Barnett

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feat...te/index2.html

[Bullitt]

What Onyxcougar said.

Also what Redux said.



I see it like this: the man has good reason to be suspicious of groups of strangers on his property due to the location of his property, past problems with trespassers, and the current violent instability across Mexico. I don't see anything wrong with what he did on his property as long as he wasn't physically abusive (beating, etc.) and immediately notified the authorities as to the situation and promptly turned the people over as they were found (all possessions, no harm done as said before, etc.). However, this is most certainly a slippery slope as evidenced by his misbehavior in this other event with a perfectly legal group of people and their actions. That article is so slanted you couldn't stand on it, but the fact remains he acted inappropriately in that situation on BLM land and should be punished for it. The man needs to learn the legal limits of dealing with these people and put that into practice. If he keeps up this overly aggressive behavior he's going to kill somebody who doesn't deserve it, and then the major shit-storm will kick up.

[sugarpop]

Hell, with all the violence happening along the border because of Mexican drug cartels, and that violence slipping over the border in some cases into America, I wouldn't really have a problem with a landowner shooting someone illegally on their property, if they posed a threat. Or in containing someone at gunpoint.

[lookout123]

If they enter his property he should be able to detain them with whatever means are necessary until the authorities arrive. Trying to round up people not on his property is absolutely idiotic.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Trying to round up people not on his property is absolutely idiotic.

And criminal. This asshole should be in jail.

Originally Posted by Bullitt

That article is so slanted you couldn't stand on it....

I cant argue with that...but I did like the part where 11 yr "Vanese had the deer in her crosshairs...!

[lookout123]

He was tried for that crime and it is behind him. The current issue is whether or not he can be sued by illegals for detaining them and turning them over to authorities on his private property.

Chances are this guy is not someone I'd like very much, but that is irrelevant.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by lookout123

He was tried for that crime and it is behind him. The current issue is whether or not he can be sued by illegals for detaining them and turning them over to authorities on his private property.

Chances are this guy is not someone I'd like very much, but that is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by lookout123

Trying to round up people not on his property is absolutely idiotic.

I agree with both of those statements.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by lookout123

He was tried for that crime and it is behind him.

It sounds from the quoted text like he was not tried for that crime. He was sued in civil court by the victims and lost. I think he should have been prosecuted in criminal court. But what do I know? I didn't Google him or anything. Just reading what's posted here.

[lookout123]

fair enough glatt. I had assumed that if an actual crime was committed those people would have filed charges against him and the legal process would move on it. I'm too lazy to google the guy because it doesn't really change my opinion. asshole or not, previously should have been convicted or not, he is only being sued over this one incident on his property.