Women please vote - Page 5

skysidhe · 10-27-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand.

Notice the only men who complained were those who frequent this kind of 'drinking till they can't say no' scenario. They must have guitly a conscious.

POLL

Have you been a victim of rape?
Yes - violent
Yes - date
No, but I was lucky to avoid it
No never

what does NO, BUT I WAS LUCKY TO AVOID IT MEAN??

lumberjim · 10-27-2006, 06:02 PM

It means they were able to escape.

or that they had that 'not so fresh' feeling, and the would be rapist changed his mind?

bluecuracao · 10-27-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe

what does NO, BUT I WAS LUCKY TO AVOID IT MEAN??

I answered yes to that, and for me, it meant that I was attacked by some idiot right in front of the campus police building--I screamed my head off, and they came running out.

DucksNuts · 10-27-2006, 08:10 PM

OMG LJ - youre killing me.

The feminist in me (its a little little bit) thinks I should be offended, but I cant keep from laughing.

You've done that a few times recently.

Iggy · 10-28-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali

What a raging ass-hat. (Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali, not flint)

Carry on.

lumberjim · 10-28-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucksNuts

OMG LJ - youre killing me.

The feminist in me (its a little little bit) thinks I should be offended, but I cant keep from laughing.

You've done that a few times recently.

i like to make people laugh. it's my favorite thing.

DanaC · 10-29-2006, 09:17 AM

When it comes right down to it.....we have a tendency to make the most awful aspects of our world a source of humour. Does that negate the awfulness of the subject? In some cases yes....in other cases no.

I don't think a person who makes a joke about rape plays their hand as someone who doesn't see the seriousness of the crime. That said, someone who does not see the serious nature of rape will most likely find it an easier source of humour than someone who does.

As for the proposal on changes to the law; I think its about time. We are convicting fewer not more rapists in the UK. The treatment of female victims by the courts has not changed significantly in thirty years, resulting in far more women pulling out of the case than following it through. If a woman has been so drunk that she cannot remember consenting(or has had her drink spiked with something to mimic that effect),there is an assumption of consent. The difficulty comes in when women make false claims against a man. This does happen; however, given the hoops that have to be jumped through; given that rape is one of the most difficult crimes to successfully prosecute and given the character assassination any female victim is subjected to, it is likely that such false-claims represent a very small percentage of rape charges brought against (mainly) men.

Currently, we have a justice system which is more concerned with protecting small numbers of men from false charge, than it is with prosecuting greater numbers of actual rape.

10-30-2006, 03:39 AM

DanaC . Too much talk . Because you are an Asian , you feel you have to prove yourself .

Rape is wrong full stop .

Having obvious fun with 'essay-writing' is not really done when an important subject is involved , and presented publicly as such .

10-30-2006, 04:05 AM

...and who are you talking about when you say 'we' , Dana ?

Pie · 10-30-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

When it comes right down to it.....we have a tendency to make the most awful aspects of our world a source of humour. Does that negate the awfulness of the subject? In some cases yes....in other cases no.

"I laugh, because I dare not cry."
Humor, black humor especially, has always been a way to deal with the unbearable. The worse a tragedy is, the more important that people be able to claim it however they wish.

skysidhe · 10-30-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

It means they were able to escape.

or that they had that 'not so fresh' feeling, and the would be rapist changed his mind?

So is this not so fresh feeling in the 'date rape'category?

I don't know if date rape was a term in my generation. If I put myself in a compromising position then I was prepared to do it. I think people these days don't have common sense. Just don't proceed beyond this action or place to avoid rape. ??

What is date rape anyway? Is it what lj describes? Lucky to avoid date rape if .....? The would be rapist changed his mind?

Sundae · 10-30-2006, 11:36 AM

Date rape is considered a category of its own because the victim knows the rapist, has consented to go out with him, has probably had a few drinks with him/ had dinner/ danced, may have agreed to a lift home from him, invited him in for coffee/ agreed to stay over in his spare room etc etc. Not all of the above will have taken place of course, but it is entirely separate to a situation where a woman is assaulted by a complete stranger for the sole purpose of violent enforced intercourse.

With date rape, the act of intercourse is rarely in question, it is the consent which is questioned. It is unlikely that in a "normal" (sorry, couldn't think of a better term) rape, the rapist will try to claim the woman consented.

Lucky to avoid....? Perhaps a flatmate came home unexpectedly, perhaps the woman managed to get out of a car where a man was pressuring her, perhaps the woman locked herself into a room to avoid a drunken man or even managed to clock him one on the nose in order to convince him what "No" meant.

I'd suggest a near-miss is a situation where a woman has felt under threat and that there is a serious potential that she will be physically overpowered, but for whatever reason no intercourse has actually taken place.

Aliantha · 10-30-2006, 05:03 PM

Sometimes the psychological effects of date rape can be worse than those of stranger rape due to the trust issues etc which arise after having had your faith/trust in someone so completely shattered.

Iggy · 11-01-2006, 12:23 PM

My answer was no, but I was lucky to avoid it. As it seems that there is confusion as to what that might entail, I will describe the situation that I am referring to.

When I was 13, my sister was good friends with the Mexican gang that hung around our neighborhood. I should mention that I lived in a bad part of town at the time. She brought home her current boyfriend (he was in the gang).

I was home alone when she got there, as both my parents were at work. I am not sure what led up to it, but for some reason this guy thought that he should have sex with me. This was a pretty stupid thing to think since I was still a virgin and definitely wasn't going to sleep with my sister’s boyfriend! Anyway, he started to try to push himself on me, so I told him to get away from me and I went in my room.

He followed me through the house and tried to push the door open when I went in my room. Since I didn't trust him I locked the door. It was lucky I did because started pounding on the door, telling me to let him in. I obviously didn't comply, and after about 30 minutes he gave up. I didn't come out until my parents got home. My sister would have been raped by this guy if she hadn't been willing, I am sure. (She might have been anyway.) He did the same thing to one of my friends who had come over looking for me one day, and the only way she escaped was to lock herself in my room.

To put it mildly this guy was very violent, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that if I hadn't removed myself from the situation he would have raped me. I was most shocked by the fact that my sister didn't stop him! She would have been a witness to this! But… I think she was scared of him. Now that I think about it she might not have even been dating him, he might have just forced her into a relationship. I don’t know. But all of the gang members seemed to have issues with women and tended to be very violent.

Does that make it clear? And I didn’t put myself in this situation; I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was always careful where I went and who with because I didn’t trust most people.

DanaC · 11-03-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

DanaC . Too much talk . Because you are an Asian , you feel you have to prove yourself .

Rape is wrong full stop .

Having obvious fun with 'essay-writing' is not really done when an important subject is involved , and presented publicly as such .

Okay.... a) I am not 'an Asian'. My Dad was born in India of English parents. Mum was a peroxide blonde from the Salford slums. If anything I am what's commonly known as a 'Manc' (short for Mancunian). I am pale skinned, with fair hair and grey/blue eyes.
b) If I was 'An Asian' I would find what you said incredibly insulting and racist, is that what you intended?
c) I am painfully and very personally aware of how serious rape is as an issue.

d) Why don't you go fuck yourself with something very sharp.....there is that better than an essay?

10-27-2006, 06:02 PM	#62
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	It means they were able to escape. or that they had that 'not so fresh' feeling, and the would be rapist changed his mind? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

10-30-2006, 11:36 AM	#72
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Date rape is considered a category of its own because the victim knows the rapist, has consented to go out with him, has probably had a few drinks with him/ had dinner/ danced, may have agreed to a lift home from him, invited him in for coffee/ agreed to stay over in his spare room etc etc. Not all of the above will have taken place of course, but it is entirely separate to a situation where a woman is assaulted by a complete stranger for the sole purpose of violent enforced intercourse. With date rape, the act of intercourse is rarely in question, it is the consent which is questioned. It is unlikely that in a "normal" (sorry, couldn't think of a better term) rape, the rapist will try to claim the woman consented. Lucky to avoid....? Perhaps a flatmate came home unexpectedly, perhaps the woman managed to get out of a car where a man was pressuring her, perhaps the woman locked herself into a room to avoid a drunken man or even managed to clock him one on the nose in order to convince him what "No" meant. I'd suggest a near-miss is a situation where a woman has felt under threat and that there is a serious potential that she will be physically overpowered, but for whatever reason no intercourse has actually taken place. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-30-2006, 05:03 PM	#73
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Sometimes the psychological effects of date rape can be worse than those of stranger rape due to the trust issues etc which arise after having had your faith/trust in someone so completely shattered. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

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View Poll Results: Have you been a victim of rape?
Yes - violent	2	6.45%
Yes - date	11	35.48%
No, but I was lucky to avoid it	4	12.90%
No never	14	45.16%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

10-27-2006, 08:10 PM	#64
DucksNuts Bitchy Little Brat Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 5,067	OMG LJ - youre killing me. The feminist in me (its a little little bit) thinks I should be offended, but I cant keep from laughing. You've done that a few times recently.

10-29-2006, 09:17 AM	#67
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	When it comes right down to it.....we have a tendency to make the most awful aspects of our world a source of humour. Does that negate the awfulness of the subject? In some cases yes....in other cases no. I don't think a person who makes a joke about rape plays their hand as someone who doesn't see the seriousness of the crime. That said, someone who does not see the serious nature of rape will most likely find it an easier source of humour than someone who does. As for the proposal on changes to the law; I think its about time. We are convicting fewer not more rapists in the UK. The treatment of female victims by the courts has not changed significantly in thirty years, resulting in far more women pulling out of the case than following it through. If a woman has been so drunk that she cannot remember consenting(or has had her drink spiked with something to mimic that effect),there is an assumption of consent. The difficulty comes in when women make false claims against a man. This does happen; however, given the hoops that have to be jumped through; given that rape is one of the most difficult crimes to successfully prosecute and given the character assassination any female victim is subjected to, it is likely that such false-claims represent a very small percentage of rape charges brought against (mainly) men. Currently, we have a justice system which is more concerned with protecting small numbers of men from false charge, than it is with prosecuting greater numbers of actual rape.

10-30-2006, 03:39 AM	#68
Buddug Guest Posts: n/a	DanaC . Too much talk . Because you are an Asian , you feel you have to prove yourself . Rape is wrong full stop . Having obvious fun with 'essay-writing' is not really done when an important subject is involved , and presented publicly as such .

10-30-2006, 04:05 AM	#69
Buddug Guest Posts: n/a	...and who are you talking about when you say 'we' , Dana ?

11-01-2006, 12:23 PM	#74
Iggy Back and ready to tart up the place Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 850	My answer was no, but I was lucky to avoid it. As it seems that there is confusion as to what that might entail, I will describe the situation that I am referring to. When I was 13, my sister was good friends with the Mexican gang that hung around our neighborhood. I should mention that I lived in a bad part of town at the time. She brought home her current boyfriend (he was in the gang). I was home alone when she got there, as both my parents were at work. I am not sure what led up to it, but for some reason this guy thought that he should have sex with me. This was a pretty stupid thing to think since I was still a virgin and definitely wasn't going to sleep with my sister’s boyfriend! Anyway, he started to try to push himself on me, so I told him to get away from me and I went in my room. He followed me through the house and tried to push the door open when I went in my room. Since I didn't trust him I locked the door. It was lucky I did because started pounding on the door, telling me to let him in. I obviously didn't comply, and after about 30 minutes he gave up. I didn't come out until my parents got home. My sister would have been raped by this guy if she hadn't been willing, I am sure. (She might have been anyway.) He did the same thing to one of my friends who had come over looking for me one day, and the only way she escaped was to lock herself in my room. To put it mildly this guy was very violent, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that if I hadn't removed myself from the situation he would have raped me. I was most shocked by the fact that my sister didn't stop him! She would have been a witness to this! But… I think she was scared of him. Now that I think about it she might not have even been dating him, he might have just forced her into a relationship. I don’t know. But all of the gang members seemed to have issues with women and tended to be very violent. Does that make it clear? And I didn’t put myself in this situation; I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was always careful where I went and who with because I didn’t trust most people.

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