Vaccination & epidemic

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Desiree update:

Her website is gone. (It had been sponsored and designed by a maker of portable hyperbaric units.) She had promised regular updates.

The Wikipedia entry on her controversy is removed as not being notable enough.

I find the wiki decision odd. Much on there is of very little "notability" - biographies of sportspeople, data about little towns here and there, and so on. With Desiree, there is at least some controversy and people will want some source of facts to check.
Oh well.

[Clodfobble]

It's okay, now we can quit rehashing the individual case in which neither side has any first hand facts, and go back to discussing overall medical evidence.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I find the wiki decision odd. Much on there is of very little "notability" - biographies of sportspeople, data about little towns here and there, and so on. With Desiree, there is at least some controversy and people will want some source of facts to check.
Oh well.

I imagine you would need to be careful quoting Wiki as a source for controversial subjects.

[Spexxvet]

Is there a documented case of an unvaccinated individual having autism?

[Clodfobble]

Yes, there are many, because while "autism" is a set of behaviors, they have isolated a few individual genetic conditions that can be the underlying cause of the behaviors, such as Fragile X syndrome. About 5% of autism cases can be genetically confirmed as being Fragile X babies, and they don't respond to most, if any, of the biomedical treatments. The rate of Fragile X has stayed pretty steady in the population, because that's how genetic trends work, and it's believed they account for nearly 100% of cases prior to the current epidemic. The other 95% of children currently with autism can similarly be ruled out as not being Fragile X babies.

[skysidhe]

Issac Newton? Einstein?
I'm glad they didn't get Chelation therapy.


Although this is what I read next.

"One can imagine geniuses who are socially inept and yet not remotely autistic. Impatience with the intellectual slowness of others, narcissism and passion for one's mission in life might combine to make such an individuals isolative and difficult." Elliott added that Einstein had a good sense of humor, a trait that is believed by some to be uncommon in people with severe Asperger syndrome.[41]

This paragraph again makes me think that the label of austim is highly overused.
Someone I know is brilliant and funny and successful and his diagnosis is pdd which they say when one has one or two traits of autism but not really autistic or aspergers at all. He will accomplish great things. I love him just the way he is and there isn't anything to fix that his intelligence can't figure out for himself.The world, the schools label too much. It's society that needs the fixing. Talented/gifted isn't so great a label either.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

This paragraph again makes me think that the label of austim is highly overused.

We've already addressed the issue of whether the prevalence is real; the numbers show conclusively that you're wrong. But if you don't want to slog through statistical proofs, just ask a special ed teacher who works in a public school. The schools know what's going on better than anyone: they're going broke creating new special education classrooms for all these autistic kids. If there is any way these kids can make it in a regular classroom, they try to force them in, because they can't afford all the extra teachers, aides, and therapists these kids require. In turn, you can also ask any general education teacher who's been doing it for 30 years--they, too, will tell you that the kids today are not like the kids were when they first started teaching, and that the low-level spectrum kids that are forced to try to make it in a real classroom are nothing like the social misfits they used to have (and still have in the same numbers today.)

[skysidhe]

It is the law that all children get a chance at being mainstreamed. No one is being FORCED. You have got it backwards.

It's called the The least restrictive environment ( LRE) according to the Individuals with Disabilities Act.( IDEA) It's cheaper to have a separate class and parents have to fight to get services to provide mainstreaming but the law is on their side.

It wouldn't matter to you that I have been a special ed TA for the last twenty years because you are always right even when what you say flies in the face of law and reason.



http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/lre.osers.memo.idea.htm

[Undertoad]

Yes. Because as I've said from the beginning, most if not all of the behaviors are not neurological at all, and not forcibly generated by the lesions; the behavior is in fact an entirely normal response to being in constant, searing pain 24 hours a day and being unable to communicate about it. Ask dar512 to describe his Crohn's pain at its worst, with no medications to help, and now pretend you are a toddler with no understanding of what is going on, and no way to tell anyone what hurts.

This is a new theory on your behalf, because I haven't found a post of yours mentioning both "pain" and "autism" before this one, and one might have found it germane to what we were all discussing.

One might have mentioned it when discussing the neurological effect of heavy metals for example. All that is pretty irrelevant. Anything "brain injury" is now a red herring, isn't it? For example, the Bailey Banks case of "acute demyelinating encephalomyelitis", neurological damage, now irrelevant to the discussion.

It's also pretty much against all the theories about how gut disorders lead to autism. The chart of connections you posted - doesn't mention pain. The alternative autism theory you have seemed to favor, says the gut disorders lead to problems in nutrient deficiency (leading to neurological problems), or by the opiate receptors being taken up (leading to neurological problems).

In fact, the entire GFCF theory is out. Jepson pages 96-97 bold mine:

A leaky gut means that molecules that wouldn't normally gain access can enter the bloodstream. This can lead to immune activation and tissue damage and effects on the brain, including damage to brain tissue. Over the years many patients have reported that their child's behavior improved measurably after gluten and casein were removed from the diet. Gluet is a protein found in grains and casein is a protein found primarily in cow's milk. These proteins have been shown to be highly immune-reactive in children with autism, particularly those with GI symptoms. There is also strong evidence that parts of these protein molecules act directly on the opiate receptors in the brain.

Goodwin et al. were among the first to document an abnormal brain response to gluten from food in autistic children with GI symptoms. Starting in the mid 1980s, several researchers found an elevation of molecules consistent with gliadomorphine (derived from gluten) and casomorphine (derived from casein) peptides in the urine of autistic subjects; these are substances that attach to the opiate receptors in the brain. They also showed that children who maintained a GFCF diet did much better neurologically (improved cognition, language, etc) than those who did not.

They hypothesized that these opioid peptides disrupt normal neurotransmitter function in the brain, creating or contributing to behaviors such as decreased socialization, decreased response to pain, abnormal language, and self-abuse or repetitive behaviors. They also proposed direct effects on the neuronal structure of the brain tissue and on the immune system. They suggested that people with autism are more likely exposted to these opioids because of abnormal digestive enzyme activity, most probably genetically influenced.

So: no neurological opioid connection, no need for GFCF.

How certain are you about this pain theory?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

It is the law that all children get a chance at being mainstreamed. No one is being FORCED. You have got it backwards.

It's called the The least restrictive environment ( LRE) according to the Individuals with Disabilities Act.( IDEA) It's cheaper to have a separate class and parents have to fight to get services to provide mainstreaming but the law is on their side.

It wouldn't matter to you that I have been a special ed TA for the last twenty years because you are always right even when what you say flies in the face of law and reason.



http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/lre.osers.memo.idea.htm

Then how come I keep seeing articles in the paper about parents disrupting school board meetings, and even filing lawsuits, to create and get their kids into, special ed classes?

[skysidhe]

I have no idea. I don't know the particulars of the articles you have seen nor have I seen any.

On second thought the only angry parent articles I have seen revolve around the talented and gifted programs but then I am not looking for them either.

I just have to refer to the public law 94-142 and IDEA again. Every child has the right to be in a classroom with their non disabled peers.

edit
Eligibility for services

Having a disability does not automatically qualify a student for special education services under the IDEA. IDEA defines a "child with a disability" as a child . . . with mental retardation, hearing impairments (including deafness), speech or language impairments, visual impairments (including blindness), serious emotional disturbance . . ., orthopedic impairments, autism, traumatic brain injury, other health impairments, or specific learning disabilities; AND, who . . . [because of the condition] needs special education and related services."[7] Children with disabilities who qualify for special education are also automatically protected by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 and under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). However, all modifications that can be provided under Section 504 or the ADA can be provided under the IDEA if included in the student's IEP.
Students with disabilities who do not qualify for special education services under the IDEA may qualify for accommodations or modifications under Section 504 and under the ADA. Their rights are protected by due process procedure requirements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individ...ve_Environment


The best way to fight is to be familiar with the law and the resources and procedures to work within that law.

[Undertoad]

Orac crushes the Hep B monkey study like a bug.

[Pico and ME]

Forced may have been too strong a term, but I believe Clod's sentiment is still correct. If a school system's finances are lacking, then special needs kids are put into regular classroom settings. Im seeing it firsthand with my stepson. We will soon have to go to the state to get his school to cooperate.

[classicman]

Thirded - Pico! I have seen the statistics of kids identified or diagnosed as ADD or ADHD . . . virtually double in our high School. In the middle school its much worse. A decade ago it was probably about 1/3 of what it is now.
This is a lot like lupus - there is not magic bullet test that says "YES." It comes down to an interpretation of symptoms and the elimination of other causal factors.

[skysidhe]

pico

I understand that what people want for their children and educational law make for complicated bed partners.

UT
His savoir - faire makes for some fine reading.

@ classic ...Exactly my point. Diagnosis are doubled and tripled and not everyone just by the virtue of having a diagnosis is going to get special services. It depends upon what the educational law guidelines say.

Actually I am not even arguing with anything but the word forced and the over diagnosing. Oh and the 'not neurological' assertion which was my original reason for posting.

I think the orac blog link makes for a much better subject of debate than what I think. I don't want to quibble so much over semantics.