If you're going to commit suicide...

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by 404Error

It's Oregon, and the law is being
challanged again by the Bush administration.

Fuck Bush(tm).

[Clodfobble]

Well, in my neighbor's case, he wouldn't have benefitted from a SuicideAtorium, because it was very much a revenge suicide. His wife had left him (because he had stopped taking his medications and started drinking again) and he knew she was supposed to be coming over to get some of her stuff. He was sitting in a chair in front of the door, waiting. When he heard a knock at the door--bang. Unfortunately for him, the knock at the door wasn't even her, it was a cop she had called to check the place out first because she knew he owned a gun. But he'll never know that.

[wolf]

What might surprise you is that many suicides go out of their way to try to be tidy.

I had one guy who set up buckets for under his wrists to bleed into so he didn't fuck up his mom's carpet. I've also had a couple bathtub wrist slitters.

Sometimes shooters either wrap themselves in something to try to contain the blood to reduce cleanup, or go to an area that won't be as messy, like the basement or backyard. Cute Little Old Man who comes to outpatient and brings chocolate for all the girls (he's a Cute Little Old Flirt), burned down his trailer and went into an open field where he slit his throat and wrists. (the burning trailer attracted the attention of the police who found him in the field and got him helicoptered to a city hospital for treatment.)

You only hear about the ones who make a spectacular mess.

[BrianR]

I have personally witnessed two suicides (of terminally ill people) and been present at the time. They took the relatively quiet and clean route of drugs that they hoarded from their prescriptions. I was touched at the suffering they withstood prior to the event to save their meds and the stoicism with which they defied the pain and presented a happy face to the ones who would survive them.

In the one case where there was family, the wife threw a party even though she could not come downstairs to be there. People came up in ones and twos to talk to her and say their goodbyes. At the end, she brought in the few people she wanted to be with her, took her pills (her "control" as she put it) and went to sleep. About an hour later her life signs ceased and her husband kissed her and brought the news to the others. All wept briefly (this was not unexpected) and then toasted her. Her doctor was informed (I believe he knew but for ethical reasons did not attend) and came to sign the death certificate. All details were handled quietly and as she wished.

When it's my time to go, I want it to be like that. Surrounded by my friends, no umseemly grieving, no mess.

I have also been a "friend" to an AIDS patient who chose to kill himself by throwing himself off an overpass into traffic below. NOT a good thing. He didn't kill anyone else but tied up traffic for hours and probably gave the unfortunate who hit him nightmares for a LONG time. Maybe Wolf even saw this guy admitted. I hate it when people do this. Death with Dignity is more than a slogan to me. I cannot fathom forcing innocent people to witness/participate in your death and the resultant cleanup. It is very selfish IMO.

Brian

[wolf]

Suicide is an inherently selfish act.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Originally Posted by wolf

Suicide is an inherently selfish act.

You are right, of course, but sometimes the person's selfishness is quite understandable. I have complete sympathy for someone in the final stages of a terminal illness who has no quality left to their life and who quietly OD's on their pain meds. Makes sense to me and doesn't leave too much of a mess for anyone to clean up.

A friend of mine ("Joe") had a truely horrific experience with the deaths of his elderly father and step mother a couple of years back. Both of them had been experiencing steadily increasing health difficulties for quite some time and were in their early 80's. The step mother had reached the point where she was completely bed ridden and in constant pain. Joe's father had been diagnosed with terminal cancer, so he was little better off than his wife.

Apparently, the two of them made some sort of murder/suicide pact and Joe's father shot first the stepmother and then himself. Amazingly, no one in their upscale neighborhood heard the shots go off, and it was a week before Joe discovered their bodies (he lives in another town and when he couldn't reach them by phone, he drove down to check on them).

Apparently, the mess and the smell was terrible, Joe had to go through the process of an inquest because no suicide note was left behind and the local cops were extremely suspicious that Joe might have knocked 'em off to get his inheritance before the medical bills ate all the money up.

The forensic evidence made it pretty clear what had happened, but Joe was put through a great deal of needless stress at a time when he already had plenty to deal with.

I have always wondered if this wasn't some sort of strange "payback" to Joe by his Dad. I've known Joe since we were both about 20 or so, and back then Joe's Dad would always get the two of us to join him for his annual fall hunting trip. Joe's Dad who had worked for the Forest Service all his life considered Joe a sort of "wussy boy" because Joe was intent on an academic career in philosophy, and these hunting trips were his way of trying to make a "man" out of Joe.

I was always uncomfortable watching the interaction between the two men. Joe seemed to lose all self confidence around his Dad and his skin would even break out if he made contact with the blood of a deer or an elk that we had brought down.

I think in some very fucked up way, Joe's Dad was taking one final chance to show Joe how to be a "real Man."

[russotto]

Originally Posted by wolf

Suicide is an inherently selfish act.

What about people who commit suicide to get their family the insurance money?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by russotto

What about people who commit suicide to get their family the insurance money?

Most insurance policies don't pay off on suicides.

[busterb]

Years passed I sold a guy I knew a legal hand gun. He gave it to his brother who was terminally ill & in hospital. he did the lights out thing. Boy was I glad we did the right paper work on gun.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by busterb

Years passed I sold a guy I knew a legal hand gun. He gave it to his brother who was terminally ill & in hospital. he did the lights out thing. Boy was I glad we did the right paper work on gun.

This just after I said in the Hunter Thompson thread -

(I don't think a nurse has to be a genius to not let the terminal cancer patient have a gun).

My bad.

Was the brother charged? Did a jury convict him of anything?

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

Suicide is an inherently selfish act.

Did Adam Smith not say people act selfishly? Therefore suicide is a symptom of free market economics?

[wolf]

Nicely said, bruce.

I've seen the serious, the cry for helps, and the attention seekers. I've also seen the accidentally or drunkenly stupid.

If there's a variation, I've probably dealt with at least one. Jumpers, cutters, drunkards, auto-exhausters, air-shooters, overdoses, shotguns, pistols, rifles, folks who decide to try to find out if humans are combustable, layers-down on train tracks (the guy who totally fucked himself up by not doing that one quite right was a piece of work ... has one remaining arm and half his large and small intestines).

Where the heck was I going with this?? Oh, yeah. There's no one way to think about suicide, no one way to think about suicidal people. Or to respond to them.

The reality is if they are gonna do it, they'll do it. The danger of that, of course, is they might die trying.

Even if they don't really want to.

[cowhead]

thanks Bruce.. hadn't been by here in a while. but it's kinda cool that someone wasted that much time to sign up and pick a name just to taunt me!

no, i have tried to snuff myself a couple of times which resulted in some really spectacular failures. to which left me with some sense of 'fate'.. as in I'm not supposed to die yet. (what I'm around for I have no Idea.. but it looks like there's something I'm supposed to do.. and for an agnostic that's a bit of a trick )

and I still stick by my 'if you want to kill yourself go right ahead, just be as considerate about it as possible' mentality

yes! killing yourself is fucked up! but.. sometimes it seems like the only option, and in the case of the terminally ill.. I support it! why suffer more than you really have to? (yeah that's another thing where the thought process get's tricky.. how much is too much?) damnit...

[cowhead]

oh yeah! and I have a gruesome sense of humour...

[cowhead]

and as a side note to cowhead_is_lame.. uh? fuck off.. yeah you won't be back here.. but if you have the fuckink balls and/or clit.. uh? care to explain why I suck? what in that did you find offensive enough to write that? just curious and waiting. hmmm sound lile a lame ass suicide yourself