Bush Tells Blacks, 'I'm Here to Ask for Your Vote'

[Clodfobble]

It sure is. Here, I'll do better than simile, let's go for straight up equivalency: The National Organization of Women IS sexist, DanaC.

Edit: Oh, well sure, change your post then. :P

[jaguar]

Not to mention if an ad made women out to be dumb blondes who should be in the kitchen the company would be sued out of existance but any kind of potshot at men is fine.

[jaguar]

That said, the recent suit against one of the big financial firms, forget who showed there is still serious wage disparity.

[DanaC]

And that Jag is ultimately the point. Look at any of the groups who cry oppression or discrimination and at it's core you will find an economic disparity

[jaguar]

But does that justify other forms of discrimination to 'balance it out'?

[Happy Monkey]

Only as long as a better solution can't be implemented.

[lookout123]

"hey you discriminated against us last recess, it's our turn to discriminate against you!!! i'm going to tell the teacher!!!"

yeah - seems reasonable enough

[jaguar]

So an eye for an eye HM? I thought two wrongs don't make a right, or does that only apply in the playground?

[Happy Monkey]

What's the better solution? Pretend there's no problem?

[lookout123]

if you walked out to your back yard and saw your son beating your daughter with a baseball bat, not hard enough to cause real damage, but enough to inflict pain, what would you do?

A) would you say "son that was really wrong" then hand your daughter the bat and say "i'm sorry that this wrong behavior was directed at you. please take this bat as compensation and beat your brother until you think that the two of you have received equal beatings."?

B) would you acknowledge that it was unacceptable behavior and then try to draw the 2 siblings into a more acceptable relationship; one where they both understand that wronging the other is unacceptable, no matter who the aggressor is?

C) would you walk out and say "good swinging son, now don't drop your shoulder."

i think you would choose b. if not, what is the number to CPS in your area? wrong behavior is not an acceptable repayment for previous wrong behavior.

[Happy Monkey]

I tried constructing a response based on your analogy, but it just isn't relevant. It's more like the son is digging the daughter into a hole, and she's trying to dig her way out. Even if you stop the son from digging (which hasn't completely happened yet), she still has a ways to go before she gets to the surface.

[jaguar]

Dana you might want to re-phrase that, you basically just accused every white person on the planet who is not aware of any current discrimination against in this case, blacks, of being part of a vast conspiricy to maintiain their 'superiority' or somesuch rubbish.

Inequality will always exist and as bruce so finely put it, we all cop it one way or another, people give favours to people they know, people they go golfing with, brother's friends not to mention old school tie stuff. There are entire management structures in some companies that you'll be unable to break in to unless you went to a certain school. Suck? Hell yes? Part of life? Certainly. Justify a culture of victimhood? no.

[DanaC]

My point is that one can either tackle racism as a problem or ignore it. To ignore it is to accept it as an inevitable part of life rather than a problem which can be solved. To ignore it is to maintain the status quo. It is in the interests of those in power to maintain the status quo as it benefits their demographic.

Do I believe that all white people are conspiring to keep the black man down? of course not, but it is clearly a reality of life which makes itself felt in the black experience in a way it does not make itself felt in the white. Is life fair for white people? No it's fair for nobody, some people get many opportunities some get few and that cuts across the boards....However the earnings disparity between the majority of black people in America and the majority of white people in America is extreme and in fact has not shifted terribly much since the days of slavery. Black people are free and they have more rights and opportunities thna they once had in America but the distance between their earnings and the majority of whites has not shrunk particularly in the past 2oo years. In order to redress the balance affirmative action has in some cases been used, but since affirmative action does it's job by making things unfair for some white people it has recieved an awful lot of bad press......to shift the balance so that is less in favour of whites means acting unfairly towards whites by placing artificial barriers in their way. This is not considered acceptable by most despite the fact it would make things more fair whne viewed as a whole. Most people who are not part of the groups most likely to face discrimination dont want the world made any more unfair towards themselves regardless of how much more fair that would be for those who are currently discriminated against.


Lookout it isnt a case of rights. In law black and white are equal.....but in reality the opportunities are fewerr for black than white and the wages are lower. Unless you are suggesting that the reason black people are so disproportionately living bneath the poverty line and that whites are disproportionately likely to succeed in business and academia is due to black people just being less capable or ambitious.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by DanaC

it would make things more fair whne viewed as a whole.

How so?

Why is it fair to make it easier for for a group, when taken as a whole, that is less qualified, when taken as a whole, for for most forms of skilled positions, when taken as a whole?

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by DanaC

However the earnings disparity between the majority of black people in America and the majority of white people in America is extreme and in fact has not shifted terribly much since the days of slavery. Black people are free and they have more rights and opportunities thna they once had in America but the distance between their earnings and the majority of whites has not shrunk particularly in the past 2oo years.

numbers? show me proof that blacks make, in relation to whites, earn no more now than they did 200 years ago.

and drop this "they have more rights and opportunities thna they one had..." BS. they have EVERY right and opportunity that i have.

handicaps are for golf not life. it is inexcuseable in modern life to skew the starting point of anything in the favor of any particular group, no matter what happened in the past. affirmative action while a good idea on paper, cannot be put into action in a proper manner - because it does not treat people as equal. it says to the minority "you couldn't do this on your own so we'll give you a little shove" if that isn't inherently racist, i don't know what is.