Why I'll Stick Up For April

Well, if you're incapable of qualifying statements and therefore presenting bogus ideas as fact, then I will indeed respond to such statements with ridicule.

You'll notice that when you're well spoken and reasonable, I respond to you in the same manner.

To suggest I am the only person responsible for the degredation of the conversation is ridiculous.

But whatever. I'm fine with a mutual exclusivity pact. It's not what I'd prefer, but if you are incapable of handling ridicule when you make ridiculous statements, then it's probably the best course.

[elSicomoro]

Come on, guys...you're both adults here. How about handling it like adults?

Juju, you posted opinion as fact. Always bad. Then a followup comment came across as a personal attack. Sometimes, I wonder how much you think before you post.

Dave, I think you overreacted to begin with. Then you pulled Juju's kid into it, which, even by your "fight fire with fire" standard, seems pretty low. Seriously, how would you feel if juju started dragging your family or your gf into an attack on you?

You don't have to listen to what I'm saying, but I'd hate to see things get uglier between you two, and therefore pull the board as a whole down b/c two of the better peeps here are at each other.

If that means not speaking, so be it. But I don't think it has to be that way.

[lumberjim]

Sorry, but if talking to me that way is the only way you feel that we can successfully communicate, then we will simply not communicate at all. This should be an acceptable compromise for both of us.

But whatever. I'm fine with a mutual exclusivity pact. It's not what I'd prefer, but if you are incapable of handling ridicule when you make ridiculous statements, then it's probably the best course.

ok...first off...I'm butting in and I know it. Sorry.

But can't we all just get along? Juju, forgive Dave the cheapshot about your BEAUTIFUL new baby ( all new babies are beautiful) and Dave, let go of the "your pathetic" line....you're not pathetic.

I have only seen you two clash in this thread and maybe one other, so I don;t have a firm grasp of your history, but if you guys just ignore each other, WHAT FUN WOULD THAT BE FOR THE REST OF US?!


now shake hands and make up

Originally posted by sycamore
Dave, I think you overreacted to begin with. Then you pulled Juju's kid into it, which, even by your "fight fire with fire" standard, seems pretty low. Seriously, how would you feel if juju started dragging your family or your gf into an attack on you?

I'm not trying to justify my attack as truthful. I have stated that the point of the comment was to get across that personal attacks are not useful in discussion between juju and I. Of course I wouldn't like an attack against the woman or my family. That's the whole point! He went personal first and I ended it.

I also don't think it needs to end with us not talking. It's retarded that he came in with "You're pathetic". It shouldn't have gotten there. He should have said "I should clarify - I don't think it's likely that blah blah blah. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was stating it as fact." Then I would have said "Oh. Well, fair enough." We shouldn't even be here! But if the end result is that we're not talking any more, that's <b>his</b> prerogative. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. It's not like we're lovers.

[FileNotFound]

Now now guys...

No need to stop them. This thread is almost at 50 replies, I figure if we let it go it might get to 100...aren't you curious?

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by dave
I'm not trying to justify my attack as truthful. I have stated that the point of the comment was to get across that personal attacks are not useful in discussion between juju and I. Of course I wouldn't like an attack against the woman or my family. That's the whole point! He went personal first and I ended it.

Dave, have you considered that caustic remarks may not always be the answer in situations like this?

As I understand it from you, you go caustic in part b/c 1) you don't like people that post opinion as fact and 2) you want to show people that it's not cool to go personal.

In the grand scheme of things, I think what Juju said is silly (in regards to opinion as fact). We all do it at one time or another...it happens. Yes, Juju has done it before. But still...you completely dressed him down, and at the end, you made a comment that Juju (and anyone else) could have easily construed as you starting the attack. Was it really called for this time? Imagine if you hadn't gone off like that...he might not have called you pathetic, and this shit might have not have occurred.

He should have said "I should clarify - I don't think it's likely that blah blah blah. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was stating it as fact." Then I would have said "Oh. Well, fair enough." We shouldn't even be here!

But at the same time, you could have easily said, "Juju, you're posting opinion as fact. Why do you keep doing that? Knock it off!" or "Care to back that up with some sources?" Or, you could have just ignored it altogether.

I'm not saying that you should completely quit blowing people out of the water...sometimes, it's amusing...even called for. But consider this:

--When you pounce like that, do you really get your point across? Or are you just adding fuel to the fire?

--How could those attacks come across to fellow--and potential--Dwellars? Beyond "I wanted to show people that personal attacks are uncool."

Just give it some thought...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by lumberjim

first off, to tell me that the people ( who are pictured in the thanks thanks thread) were talking about me and not too impressed is shitty.

If you saw the pictures, you saw Alayne. I can honestly say I didn't think of you at all.

[123tess]

I've just registered here, (within the last few days) and I've had 3 private messages from April, demanding that I accept her and be her friend.
I find her rather obnoxious. I do find most of the other posts highly amusing though, and very interesting. Keep up the good work!



guess I'm going to get another private message *sigh*

[wolf]

I find deleting them without reading helps. Less frustrating

[FileNotFound]

Originally posted by 123tess
I've just registered here, (within the last few days) and I've had 3 private messages from April, demanding that I accept her and be her friend.
I find her rather obnoxious. I do find most of the other posts highly amusing though, and very interesting. Keep up the good work!



guess I'm going to get another private message *sigh*

Join the club. I didn't start hating her for no reason.

Oh and....Welcome and stuff...

[ladysycamore]

FNF:On second thought...it won't. In fact, don't you think that doing what "you" think is right and attacking those whom 'you' percieve to be unjust is a bit...conceited?

DAVE:
And yet if no one did just that, no one would have stopped Hitler. They would have said "Well, he could be right. I have no backbone, so I'll sit around like a bag of slop and let him do whatever he likes!"

But wait: Hitler actually killed people and tried to destroy an entire race/culture. This is TOTALLY different, in the grand scheme of things.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by FileNotFound
So now she's trying a new approach of "Woe is me! Look at me! I'm in so much pain! I've made so many mistakes! Oh look I'm trying so hard to fix up my life by wasting hours on this message board. Oh boo hoo hoo I had sex when I was 12, never used bc and still don't use condoms. Do you forgive me yet or do I need to get more dramatic?"

I have to say that I can't disagree with this, not one bit. She made her bed, and now she's lying in it, but yet seems to want people to feel sorry for her and her situation...a situation that SHE WANTED! That's fine and dandy if that's what people want to do, but that's NOT going to be me. The best I can do is hope that the child isn't raised in a dysfunctional home.

Yes, people make mistakes and have come back stronger than ever from them. But, I will CONTINUE to get angry when I see people becoming statistics everyday. I get mad hearing about the teen who ends up dead because of drunk driving or hearing of yet ANOTHER teen pregnancy, I get mad when yet another black person ends up in trouble with the law and in jail, I get mad when yet another woman ends up hurt because she didn't leave that abusive man, and so on. MAYBE compassion for those people will come later (and that's a BIG maybe), but goddamnit my first reaction is always going to be pissy mad, P-E-R-I-O-D (especially when a problem could have been avoided if proper action had been taken in the first place!!).

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
This business of be nice, play nice and speak (write) nice or shut up, will kill the Cellar faster than a power outage.

Granted there IS a way of saying things without getting nasty about it. I think that has become a "lost art" if you will.

{sistahgurl}However, imma keep it real{/sistahgurl}

I'm not going to say that if someone has a strong opinion about something, that they can't express it. After all, I am not the owner/moderator of this board, and therefore I do not feel that I have the right to squash someone's freedom to speak.

Basically, not everyone is going to "love" what others say and how they say it...to that I say oh well. Can't please everyone, right?

I feel that people can get more out of picking and choosing their battles anyway. Is it *really* worth getting into wild flame wars with people _online_? I dunno...words don't carry much weight to me if you can't deliver the same punch in a "real world" situation. That's just my take on it.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by dave

I also don't think it needs to end with us not talking. It's retarded that he came in with "You're pathetic". It shouldn't have gotten there. He should have said "I should clarify - I don't think it's likely that blah blah blah. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was stating it as fact." Then I would have said "Oh. Well, fair enough." We shouldn't even be here!

Ok, just like lumberjim said, I'm butting in and sorry.

How is calling someone's statement "retarded" any worse than calling someone "pathetic"? And really...is pathetic the WORSE thing that someone can call you? And what's this about how he "should" have responded: you can't tell someone HOW to respond and expect them to comply merely because YOU said to do so. That to me sounds like some kind of control issue.

At any rate, it's not always what you say, but how you say it that makes a difference in many situations. And also "just because you CAN doesn't always mean you SHOULD".

Please go read everything juju and I have ever posted together before commenting. That way, you might have some idea what's going on. Thanks.

And what's this about how he "should" have responded: you can't tell someone HOW to respond and expect them to comply merely because YOU said to do so. That to me sounds like some kind of control issue.

It sounds to me like you don't have the faintest fucking idea what's going on. I'm not giving juju an order; what I was saying was that if what he wanted to convey was that his previous post was an opinion, he could have better done so using wording that resembled what I posted in the text you quoted. There is no control issue, I was not giving him an order, blah blah blah. Again, please read the conversation we're talking about before posting. I wasn't telling him how to respond. I was stating that he did a piss poor job showing that his post was opinion and not a statement of fact, and that if he wanted to make it clear that it was an opinion, he <b>should</b> have said something like what I said. It's a suggestion. "If you don't want people to talk down to you, you should do your homework and read up on posts before commenting on them as if you have any idea what's going on." I don't care whether or not you do your homework, as long as you don't care that I think your opinion is invalid because you're ignorant of the situation and/or can't understand common English phrase usage such as I employed in the post you quoted.