Obama - The beginning

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

With an infrastructure based spending spree, at least you end up with the infrastructure, regardless of how effective the program was at stimulating the economy. We have major highway bridges falling down. We need the infrastructure to be rebuilt. It's an investment in our future, and it will also stimulate the economy to some extent as we do it.

But that is not how it is being sold to us. It is being sold as a jobs creation program. And the only companies that will actually benifit will be those that are pre-positioned to do the work.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

I think there is definitely a plan. Its effectiveness is unknown, but it can't be any worse than the last one...can it?

Well it won't mean squat if something actionable is not started immediately. I fear that this job creation fantasy is just that, a fantasy, not a plan. I think they believe that if they throw money at a system it will just start up like the turn of a key and jobs will be created. That would be highly unlikely.

[classicman]

I have a little insight into that Merc. The worst part is that they are looking to REPAIR bridges and need the ones which can be completed in the shortest amount of time with the least disruption to traffic. This means that the ones which need reparations the most are not going to be worked on. That gets things moving quickly, but still leaves the bridges in the worst shape - just that, in the worst shape. Addressing them is apparently not on the "short list."

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

I have a little insight into that Merc. The worst part is that they are looking to REPAIR bridges and need the ones which can be completed in the shortest amount of time with the least disruption to traffic. This means that the ones which need reparations the most are not going to be worked on. That gets things moving quickly, but still leaves the bridges in the worst shape - just that, in the worst shape. Addressing them is apparently not on the "short list."

Have you even seen a list? I have not. But I hear a lot of rhetoric about trillions of dollars and jobs being created.

[Clodfobble]

But at least those pre-positioned companies won't be forced to have those layoffs they were contemplating in the near future, right?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But at least those pre-positioned companies won't be forced to have those layoffs they were contemplating in the near future, right?

That may be true, but again this is being touted as a job creation/stimulus. What it appears to be is something different. Hell, I'm not involved, but it sure is beginning to seem like something other than what we were originally told.
At least its going to do some good other than redecorating an office for 1 mil+ or going to bonuses.

[TheMercenary]

Actually most have already layed off and are without contract jobs because the states have run out of money and only the most pressing jobs are being completed. If that were not the case there would be no discussion about how abismal our roads and bridges are. Most of the small trucking companies are but a shell of what they were or have closed all together. Hopefully Obama's plan will work and all these people use to working in air conditioned factories and behind desks in cushy offices are going to hit the fresh air and with freezing temps in the winter and blazing heat in the summer to get work.

[Undertoad]

35,000 jobs lost is not all that many. 2,590,000 jobs were lost in 2008.

[Shawnee123]

I wondered about that, UT.

It reminds me of another article which was posted somewhere, outlining the horrors of proposed tax plans which would give "rebates" (quotation marks theirs) to people on taxes they never paid out in the first place.

And, that's different than now, how? That's pretty typical now.

[classicman]

sar/Perhaps those are liberal's jobs and thats why they are important.
Got the elections in 2 years/casm

[TheMercenary]

This was pretty accurate:

Obama faced an early test last week, when, in the midst of the debate over economic stimulus, Democrats worked to shut Republicans out of the policy process, then behaved boorishly when Republicans complained.

Democratic leaders responded with the political equivalent of a sack dance in football. “If it’s passed with 63 votes or 73 votes, history won’t remember it,” said Senator Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois.

Yes We Did

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi added to the mood by saying, “Yes, we wrote the bill. Yes, we won the election.”

There is still time for Obama to object to such behavior. If he wants to fulfill the promise of his rhetoric, he should take Pelosi to the woodshed and insist that she include Republicans, collegially, in the process. He should stand up to his party and threaten to veto a bill if it fails to make reasonable concessions to his friends across the aisle. He should advise his own staff to begin returning the phone calls of senior Republican aides.

If he fails to do that, there can be little doubt that government will fail to change and will continue to fail us. When times are good, one might be able to survive with a pitiful government. Today, we might not be so lucky. We are living in a fleeting moment where real change is possible. Aristotle is watching.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaX0MEqeCGjA

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

This was pretty accurate:

Obama faced an early test last week, when, in the midst of the debate over economic stimulus, Democrats worked to shut Republicans out of the policy process, then behaved boorishly when Republicans complained.

Democratic leaders responded with the political equivalent of a sack dance in football. “If it’s passed with 63 votes or 73 votes, history won’t remember it,” said Senator Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois.

Yes We Did

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi added to the mood by saying, “Yes, we wrote the bill. Yes, we won the election.”

There is still time for Obama to object to such behavior. If he wants to fulfill the promise of his rhetoric, he should take Pelosi to the woodshed and insist that she include Republicans, collegially, in the process. He should stand up to his party and threaten to veto a bill if it fails to make reasonable concessions to his friends across the aisle. He should advise his own staff to begin returning the phone calls of senior Republican aides.

If he fails to do that, there can be little doubt that government will fail to change and will continue to fail us. When times are good, one might be able to survive with a pitiful government. Today, we might not be so lucky. We are living in a fleeting moment where real change is possible. Aristotle is watching.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaX0MEqeCGjA

But it's wrong. The republicans DID get a chance to add amendments. And after they did, and the democrats voted with them on the amendments just to appease them and appease a bipartisan solution... the republicans STILL vote against it.

We shouldn't play ball if they won't. We have enough votes, shut 'em out if they wont play along.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by Ibram

But it's wrong. The republicans DID get a chance to add amendments. And after they did, and the democrats voted with them on the amendments just to appease them and appease a bipartisan solution... the republicans STILL vote against it...

The dems gave comprosises, Repubs were allowed a chance to put their voice in. Got some amendments, ect ect ect. Dems didn't stay staunch and keep the EXACT bill they wrote, they made changes to appease Repubs. Just wasn't good enough for the losers I guess.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

The dems gave comprosises, Repubs were allowed a chance to put their voice in. Got some amendments, ect ect ect. Dems didn't stay staunch and keep the EXACT bill they wrote, they made changes to appease Repubs.

Exactly what amendments were made in the house bill that went to the floor for the vote - aside from killing the money for planned notparenthood?

[classicman]

deja vue? Didn't I just read this in another thread?