What if?

[Sundae]

I know what it is like to have political views regardless of the specific candidate.

If someone is Republican no matter who is fielded, I can understand that. It's not a path I'd choose to take, but I'm not into telloing people what they can and can't think.

So yes, I do know how it feels to be a Republican. If that's what you mean.

It's not my fight though. I'll be feeling what it's like to be a Labour supporter in the next election, knowing my party isn't doing well and knowing the country will swing to the right as a result of the recent credit distress. I won't make up silly names for David Cameron, or dig up sleeze or flood the Cellar with political posts (you might not even realise an election is happening)

And I won't claim fellow Brits vote for Cameron because he is white. Because he is male. Because he went to Eton.

I think I'm done.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well do you believe that reverse discrimination occurs, blacks to whites? And do you believe that blacks can be bigots or racists in their own right. Same for any other ethnic delineation, say Korean’s against white or blacks. Chinese Americans against anyone not Chinese? And how might this be different from other countries, like the UK or our friends Down Under?

Before I answer I'm quickly going to define my terms so no confusion occurs.

Prejudice - The thought of one group being superior to the other.

Ex. The prejudice man thought all Mexicans were lazy.

Discrimination - The act of preferring one group to another by prejudice justification.

The running back coach discriminated against the white boy for the starting position.

Racism - The social doctrine of putting one ethnic group or race above another on the social ladder

The 3/5th act would be considered a racist law.

Racist - One who follows or enforces racism, conscious or subconscious.

The black man was frustrated after the white liberal racist teacher overly congratulated him for getting a 90% on a test while not evening saying "good job" to the white boy that got a 95%.


Note that I do not use racist solely with the traditional term. Most people believe that humans are more important than dogs, but we do not beat them or lynch them. Most racists consciously or subconsciously believe that whites are more important than blacks, but that does not mean they will beat them. They may even want to bring blacks up to "their" level.



For your answer Merc,

Yes, any group can discriminate whether they are on the top of the social ladder or not. Blacks can be bigots (black supremacists) and be racist but they can NOT enforce racism because there is no current social doctrine that prefers blacks over whites (besides maybe jail). If there was a social doctrine somewhere that preferred blacks over whites, then blacks could just as easily enforce racism as whites do everywhere else.

I wouldn't consider Mexico true racism even though I have heard many horror stories. From what I've heard, all policies and social hardships against whites are because whites are considered rich, which enforces white supremacy. I would consider their "racism" reactionary to white supremacy. That does not justify their actions in any way BTW.


I have not seen anything first hand because I have not really left the country but I think white supremacy occurs everywhere in the world but it is pointed out more in the United States. From what I hear, a lot of Europeans try to pretend racism doesn't exist in their country but it really does and because no one believes it exists, nothing gets done about it.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

I know what it is like to have political views regardless of the specific candidate.

I think I'm done.

I wasn't making a personal attack on anyone, just trying to make the point that a lot, maybe the majority, of republicans don't have any racist intentions when voting. In fact, I have seen more Obama supporters vote because of race than McCain supporters so naturally people that call others racist for not voting Obama (this is not an attack on anyone here) while they are clearly voting because of his skin color annoys the hell out of me.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes, any group can discriminate whether they are on the top of the social ladder or not. Blacks can be bigots (black supremacists) and be racist but they can NOT enforce racism because there is no current social doctrine that prefers blacks over whites (besides maybe jail). If there was a social doctrine somewhere that preferred blacks over whites, then blacks could just as easily enforce racism as whites do everywhere else..

Well it does exist in many places in the US. I will give you an example of many ranges. Washington, D.C. mostly black: Atlanta, Ga; Birmingham, Al; the list is to long. Now, for non-blacks, any "China Town", SF, Calif; Honolulu, HI; Chicago, IL; New York, NY. How about the "Korea Towns". Believe me it exists. This is not made up stuff. When I lived in D.C. in the early 80's black on white racism was rampant, same for when I was a kid in Jersey in the early 70's. Ever been to inner city Trenton, NJ? This is neither new nor unknown. Thte whole notion of "the other side of the tracks" is a real concept. On one side you were safe and white racism dominated, go to the other side and the roles reversed. That is just the way it was and it remains in many places today.

It is not about equality, which I fully support, it is about role reversal.

[ZenGum]

Here's another What If?

What if Obama carries a double digit lead all the way from now to November 4, including the swing states, yet after the polls close a McCain victory is announced ... followed closely by lots of claims of serious irregularities.

Not that this could ever really happen; just, you know, imagine what if.

Some of the claims seem well substantiated, and if true, definitely indicate that the election should have gone the other way.

There is marching in the streets and much shouting of catchy but stupid slogans. There is civil disobedience and a general strike. Which of these do you join in? Which do you sit out?

How blatantly rigged does an election have to be for you, as a citizen of your country, to deny its legitimacy and act accordingly? How far would you go?




For me, the crucial thing is that the government the majority of people want got elected. Provided that requirement is satisfied, I would go along but insist that the criminal system prosecute any individual who had subverted the vote.
But if the "wrong party" had seized power, I think it is everyone's duty to resist.



: throws cat amongst pigeons :

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Here's another What If?

What if Obama carries a double digit lead all the way from now to November 4, including the swing states, yet after the polls close a McCain victory is announced ... followed closely by lots of claims of serious irregularities.

Not that this could ever really happen; just, you know, imagine what if.

Some of the claims seem well substantiated, and if true, definitely indicate that the election should have gone the other way.

There is marching in the streets and much shouting of catchy but stupid slogans. There is civil disobedience and a general strike. Which of these do you join in? Which do you sit out?

How blatantly rigged does an election have to be for you, as a citizen of your country, to deny its legitimacy and act accordingly? How far would you go?




For me, the crucial thing is that the government the majority of people want got elected. Provided that requirement is satisfied, I would go along but insist that the criminal system prosecute any individual who had subverted the vote.
But if the "wrong party" had seized power, I think it is everyone's duty to resist.



: throws cat amongst pigeons :

Elections in this country are not satisfied by the requirement of majority rules. It is the electoral college, this is a Republic, not a democracy.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well it does exist in many places in the US. I will give you an example of many ranges. Washington, D.C. mostly black: Atlanta, Ga; Birmingham, Al; the list is to long. Now, for non-blacks, any "China Town", SF, Calif; Honolulu, HI; Chicago, IL; New York, NY. How about the "Korea Towns". Believe me it exists. This is not made up stuff. When I lived in D.C. in the early 80's black on white racism was rampant, same for when I was a kid in Jersey in the early 70's. Ever been to inner city Trenton, NJ? This is neither new nor unknown. Thte whole notion of "the other side of the tracks" is a real concept. On one side you were safe and white racism dominated, go to the other side and the roles reversed. That is just the way it was and it remains in many places today.

I'm agree that it does exist and another example would be underground hip hop but I still see those subgroups as mostly reactionary to the larger white supremacy doctrine or just plain nationalism. If white supremacy wasn't in place, would any of these places have the same views as they do now/20 years ago?


For immigrant groups, from what I have seen, it is just very strong nationalism in a Greek versus Barbarians type way. I lived in a Somalian neighborhood and they didn't like anyone who wasn't Somalian. It had very little to do with anything else.

It is not about equality, which I fully support, it is about role reversal.

Equality can never come as long as we keep looking at ourselves as races. The scars are too deep for the black race to ever be equal with the white race. We can only have the human race.

[xoxoxoBruce]

One of my best friends at work is voting for McCain because, "If Obama gets elected, the niggers will go crazy." When I pressed as to just how "the niggers will go crazy", he had no answer. When I told him he was racist, he responded, "Damn right I am".

The funny (certainly not ha ha) thing about this, is he has no problem with the black people he works with, or the black people in his neighborhood. His hatred is only at the niggers that turned his mother's neighborhood, his boyhood home, into a slum.

He can't see that his hatred is really economic. The black people he works with, and live in his neighborhood, are the same economic strata as he is, whereas the niggers that ruined mom's neighborhood, were denied decent jobs and grew into a resentful thug culture. Cause and effect.

[Clodfobble]

I, too, have had a guy try to explain to me in detail how there were both niggers and black guys, just like there were white trash and white guys. I asked him if there were both fags and gay people too, but he said no, they were all fags.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

He can't see that his hatred is really economic. The black people he works with, and live in his neighborhood, are the same economic strata as he is, whereas the niggers that ruined mom's neighborhood, were denied decent jobs and grew into a resentful thug culture. Cause and effect.

*nods* that makes sense.

[Undertoad]

Niggers vs Black Guys: Chris Rock's brilliant work on the topic