You RFN, 2013

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

That's the advantage men have ... they can have gray hair and be sexy;
they can have white hair and be sexy; they can be bald and be sexy. Use that advantage, guys.

This is what women, surveys, etc keep telling us
... that men are driven by the visual, women not so much.

I believe it's true.
...my evidence is that my wife says she loves me, and follows that by saying I'm cute !

[xoxoxoBruce]

Having lived her married life under the thumb of a male chauvinist pig may have something to do with buying into the rhetoric, but probably mostly being a passive Canadian.

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by monster

Why are you so down on women? In some I'd say it was a ploy to attract men by seeming weak and in need of protection/adoration, but you surely don't need that. You have how many degrees, have beaten cancer and are moving state for your job....

I have no idea where this is coming from. Down on women because I think men can be sexy with gray, white, or no hair? Using a ploy to seem weak and in need of protection/adoration? Yes, you said 'in some'. You're accomplished at the direct, two-by-four to the head type of insult, but your subtlety needs work.

In my experience, women with gray, white, or no hair tend not to usually be seen as sexy by men; that the reverse isn't necessarily true is the 'advantage' I wrote about. I think women are far smarter in the whole male/female dance because we value a more complex set of attributes.

Down on women ... :

[Lola Bunny]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

That's the advantage men have ... they can have gray hair and be sexy; they can have white hair and be sexy; they can be bald and be sexy. Use that advantage, guys.

I agree. And no, it's not my ploy to attract men either.

[Lola Bunny]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

This is what women, surveys, etc keep telling us
... that men are driven by the visual, women not so much.

I believe it's true.
...my evidence is that my wife says she loves me, and follows that by saying I'm cute !

But you are cute. Actually, I think you're good looking, so your wife isn't exactly lying to you. ;-)

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

In my experience, women with gray, white, or no hair tend not to usually be seen as sexy by men; that the reverse isn't necessarily true is the 'advantage' I wrote about. I think women are far smarter in the whole male/female dance because we value a more complex set of attributes.

I think, what you think, is bullshit you've picked up from women, not from men. Not sexy, my ass.

[lumberjim]

Men get more rugged looking as they age. chicks dig that. Look at George Clooney.

The ideal woman is young, smooth skinned and gravity defying. ... mainstream ideal, I mean. Personally, I'm with louis...



Might be 'wrong of us' but it's true.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

The ideal woman is young, smooth skinned and gravity defying. ... mainstream ideal, I mean.

Yeah yeah yeah, and the most popular flavor is vanilla but men sure buy a shitload of less boring flavors. The "ideal" is a stupid goal, you don't have to look anything like the "ideal" to be attractive to men, to be sexy. Just smell good and smile.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

...Just smell good and smile.

And buy things, you left out buying things.

[DanaC]

It's sometimes difficult to remember that when you're surrounded by constant media messages to the contrary.

Older man on tv? No worries. Older woman on tv? Message boards light up with complaints about wrinkles and ugliness on the screen.

Past a certain age women become culturally invisible.

[xoxoxoBruce]

.

[Gravdigr]

I wish something large, and very heavy would fall on that little fella.

Twice.

[DanaC]

This here board is one of the few places I've found online that has anything like a healthy view of aging.

I was hanging about the Big Brother forums recently, because I was into Big Brother this year. The Celeb BB had a woman on, in her fifties, who hasnt had any plastic surgery and who looks a little weathered for her age. Kickass figure but lines on her face.

Some of the stuff people were posting was just depressing. It's like they felt personally affronted by the presence of a female face with lines on their television screen.

And the abuse the classics professor Mary Beard came in for after her tv show was aired was just surreal. People posting in the review comments that she made them feel physically ill and they shouldn't have such an ugly woman on tv.

This is Mary, she's 58 and an eminent scholar (Professor of Classics at the University of Cambridge, a fellow of Newnham College, and Royal Academy of Arts professor of ancient literature).



This is David Starkey, aged 68, who also presents history programmes on TV. He comes in for a lot of stick for his analysis and occasionally provocative statements...people don't generally complain about how he looks, or suggest that his physical appearance is an affront to the viewing public.

[Sundae]

Having been every weight from 8 stone 10 (121lb) to 18 stone 10 (262lb) I can assure you that fat women are invisible.
IN GENERAL men do not start conversations with fat women.
All the women with shown with short hair/ bald/ grey are thin and beautiful.

That's why I turned to the internet and felt I found friends who were more interested in what I had to say than how I looked.

That said, I'm still colouring my hair and breaking in my ankle breaking shoes
I don't think I hate other women, just myself.

ETA - s'true Dana.
Double standards exist in many ways. Too boring to go into.
But to deny that older women are often treated differently is definitely one of them.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Some of the stuff people were posting was just depressing.

"People," or "boys?"

I'll readily agree that many young men are abusive towards the very concept of older women. But of course David Starkey doesn't get shit on for his looks--if the boys shit on him, the implication would be that they're gay. It's still a problem, no doubt... I'm just saying that it's a little disingenuous to say society has this problem when in fact it is one specific segment of society. (Do young women occasionally shit on older women? Sometimes, but in my opinion that's only attempting to play towards those younger men whose attention they crave. If the younger men respected the older women, the young women would too.)