What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

[classicman]

Yes you take away the incentive for coming. That must be part of the overall plan, but for those that are already here, why just let them walk away?
Doesn't this go back to the "we know how many are here, but we cannot find them?"
Well there were thousands. Yes a drop in the bucket, but its a start.

[xoxoxoBruce]

This way, they pay their own ticket home instead of you.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by classicman

but for those that are already here, why just let them walk away?

Avoiding the costs of deportation? I'm assuming most will come back anyways.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not if there's no work.

[lookout123]

The problem really isn't that hard to solve if the politicians and their owners wanted to fix it.

1) Use the E-verify system in every state to verify work eligibility. If a company is caught knowingly employing illegals the company has to shut it's doors for 10 days. Second offense is 30 days. Third offense is permanent. When the risk outweighs the rewards the employers will change their ways or cease to be employers.

2) Scrap the current complex immigration process. Legal immigration should be easier. If they can pass a simple but thorough background check let them in. Steady employment must be maintained as they will be ineligible for welfare benefits. If during the first 2 years they go more than 120 days unemployed, out they go.

Once those 2 steps are in place illegal immigration should all but stop for those who are just seeking a better way of life. The drug runners, human smugglers, and other criminals should be the only ones left trying to sneak in. Then start step 3.

3) Secure the border. That doesn't necessarily mean a wall across the southern US, but it does mean border patrol has the ability to patrol without interference. Anyone sneaking into the US is a criminal and they should be treated as such. Arrest them and return them using the Eisenhauer method of deportation. Don't return them to the border, ship them to southern mexico(or nothernmost part of canada ) and drop them off. If someone illegally entering the US violently engages US LE then the solution is simple - shoot them on the spot as you would any other violent invasion force.

of course none of that will happen because illegal immigration is a wonderful topic to keep the citizenry divided and controllable by those elected to serve us.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by lookout123

The problem really isn't that hard to solve if the politicians and their owners wanted to fix it.

1) Use the E-verify system in every state to verify work eligibility. If a company is caught knowingly employing illegals the company has to shut it's doors for 10 days. Second offense is 30 days. Third offense is permanent. When the risk outweighs the rewards the employers will change their ways or cease to be employers.

2) Scrap the current complex immigration process. Legal immigration should be easier. If they can pass a simple but thorough background check let them in. Steady employment must be maintained as they will be ineligible for welfare benefits. If during the first 2 years they go more than 120 days unemployed, out they go.

Once those 2 steps are in place illegal immigration should all but stop for those who are just seeking a better way of life. The drug runners, human smugglers, and other criminals should be the only ones left trying to sneak in. Then start step 3.

3) Secure the border. That doesn't necessarily mean a wall across the southern US, but it does mean border patrol has the ability to patrol without interference. Anyone sneaking into the US is a criminal and they should be treated as such. Arrest them and return them using the Eisenhauer method of deportation. Don't return them to the border, ship them to southern mexico(or nothernmost part of canada ) and drop them off. If someone illegally entering the US violently engages US LE then the solution is simple - shoot them on the spot as you would any other violent invasion force.

of course none of that will happen because illegal immigration is a wonderful topic to keep the citizenry divided and controllable by those elected to serve us.

I really don't have an issue with any of that. I won't have a problem paying higher prices for products and services, and I won't have a problem with more federal government employees to do the work that will need to get done.

I'd also add:
Knowingly employing an undocumented alien makes you inelligible for public office.

Undocumented aliens who are treated at a hospital and can't pay will be stablized and deported.

[classicman]

great points LO...

of course none of that will happen because illegal immigration is a wonderful topic to keep the citizenry divided and controllable by those elected to serve us.

The saddest truth of them all. But don't forget distracted as well.

[Lamplighter]

#1 The E-verify system already exists.
So if a business hires an "illegal" they are either doing so knowingly or they are purposely not being deligent.
(Ooops, did I forgot to check that felllow ???)

That's why I have no sympathy for businesses that get fined when they get caught or the politicians that support them.
But shut-downs probably have immediate ramifications for any "legal" employees of the company.

For the rest of what you say, I'm either in agreement or could live with it, especially your last line.

[classicman]

Utah agencies probe alleged illegal immigrant list

State agencies are investigating whether any of their employees leaked Social Security numbers and other personal information after a list of 1,300 people who an anonymous group claims are illegal immigrants was circulated around Utah.

The anonymous group mailed the list to several media outlets, law enforcement agencies and others this week, frightening the state's Hispanic community. A letter accompanying the list demanded that those on it be deported immediately.

The list also contains highly detailed personal information such as Social Security numbers, birth dates, workplaces, addresses and phone numbers. Names of children are included, along with due dates of pregnant women on the list.

Republican Gov. Gary Herbert wrote in a tweet Tuesday that he has asked state agencies to investigate the list's origin.

"We've got some people in our technology department looking at it right now," said Dave Lewis, communication for the state Department of Workforce Services. "It's a high priority. We want to figure out the how's and why's."

Just a couple thoughts ... How bout finding out why this group can do your job better than you can? Oh and if they are illegal - enforce the law.

Lewis noted his department is one of several with access to the information included in the list. He said his agency didn't receive a copy of the list from the governor's office until late Tuesday.

Most of the names on the list are of Hispanic origin.

"My phone has been ringing nonstop since this morning with people finding out they're on the list," said Tony Yapias, former director of the Utah Office of Hispanic Affairs. "They're feeling terrorized. They're very scared."

Link
Gee really??? Perhaps thats because they are here illegally?

[xoxoxoBruce]

She noted that because ICE has finite resources, it focuses its efforts "first on those dangerous convicted criminal aliens who present the greatest risk to the security of our communities, not sweeps or raids to target undocumented immigrants indiscriminately.

Then you're not doing your cushy government job, bitch.

[classicman]

Now that I think of it, she probably just got handed a years quota in a day.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Once Mexico has a middle class visible without magnification, we don't have these problems any more. The United States doesn't really have an immigration problem; Mexico has a middle class one that it has not solved.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Once Mexico has a middle class visible without magnification, we don't have these problems any more. The United States doesn't really have an immigration problem; Mexico has a middle class one that it has not solved.

And why are we therefore responsible for fixing it. The sooner we stop enabling the sooner it'll stop. Is that your plan?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by classicman

And why are we therefore responsible for fixing it. The sooner we stop enabling the sooner it'll stop. Is that your plan?

No. Because I can't honestly say I've got one. So that sure as hell wouldn't be it. Unfortunately, to be sure.

No, I do not think it falls to us to be "responsible for fixing it." Not as an exertion of the US national will, I mean. From a libertarian point of view, it's a frightful ethical dilemma: property rights are regarded as something sacred and not to be arbitrarily messed with by any entity, but a concentration of all property in the hands of the favored few is clearly the road to stagnated poverty also. That's the very thing the ilegales trek north to escape, and they labor away diligently once they've gotten here (yes, I'm speaking only in generalities -- well-attested ones) to keep free of that. This very thing is all over Oxnard, and all over the inhabited end of Ventura County generally.

It may be summed up as "Regulations be damned, !hay que vivir!" It is hard to gainsay that. But they wouldn't have to come north if they had anything like opportunity down south, would they? Central American countries aren't a solution; they are no more libertarian, no more packed with smallholders, than Mexico is. Ain't a livin' down there either.

And we libertarians don't like fixing problems by force: it isn't fair to the people with property now to rape it from them and parcel it out to others whose qualification for receiving it is they didn't have any previously, and hence it wasn't fair to them. WTF kind of qualification is that, eh? Quite enough to get the libertarian philosopher to disparage "fairness" as any proper policy driver. Unfortunately, it also discourages the libertarian thinker from attaining to any fix for the economic problem at all, and how friggin' useless is that? About all we end up doing is damning and blasting latifundianism as a stagnating force: that's a lot more being said than being done. The old but apt punchline about "33 1/3 revolutions per minute" doesn't seem to have done or meant enough to fix the problem of property and prosperity either.

[classicman]

PROVIDENCE, RI (AP) - Supporters of Arizona's new illegal immigration law have cited Rhode Island as a state where police have carried out comparably tough enforcement without a court challenge from the Obama administration.

But in Rhode Island, both sides of the debate agree that the executive order issued by Gov. Don Carcieri in 2008 is far less sweeping than the Arizona law, which takes effect this month.

Arizona's law requires local police officers, while enforcing other laws, to check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally.

The Rhode Island executive order directs State Police to assist with immigration enforcement, but it merely encourages local police to seek the immigration status of suspects they encounter.

Some police departments say they don't want their officers acting as immigration agents.