Hispanic Boycott in Arizona - Page 3

lookout123 · 05-16-2005, 04:50 PM

McCain? were the cameras on? He is an overfluffed media whore. just as i hope the dems can come up with a better choice than Kerry in '08, i plead that the repugnants can come up with someone better than my hometown...hero.

warch · 05-19-2005, 02:02 PM

Oh, I dunno. I think as far as republicans go, McCain aint bad. He seems to work well with others....has taken good stands against some corprate moves. What are your real beefs?(Other than his camera time.)

lookout123 · 05-19-2005, 02:18 PM

to compare a guy against other politicians and say he comes out favorably isn't all that impressive.

but...McCain is as big of a back room dealmaker and breaker as you will find. he is supposed to be a friend to the military, but sure doesn't show it when the cameras are off.

he had a major hand in killing the Refueler leasing program, and it wasn't because of the numbers. he was pissed that rumsfeld, et al went around his committee, so he killed it out of spite, but then when the cameras were on he was talking about the numbers. by doing that, he totally screwed over Air National Guard units around the country including the one 10 minutes from his Home Office. i can't go into specifics about the airframes involved but the program would have been a HUGE boon to the men and women who need them. while the case can be made that leasing costs more - it would have put the airframes into service years sooner and they are way past the time they were needed.

he is part of the group buying up land around a military base that isn't on the BRAC list now, but has been in danger for quite some time. on the surface, the land buy is to help the base remain open for decades to come. the reality is that many of the buyers involved did something similar around another base a few years back. strangely they were unable to stop it from closing. "sorry folks, we couldn't keep the base open. never mind the MILLIONS we just made for ourselves by owning the land around the base. nothing to see here, move along."

illegal immigration is a huge problem in arizona and McCain says all the right things and talks about it a lot, but he doesn't support any meaningful change.

his #1 talent is in finding the right camera angle , capitalizing on his family name, and his former POW status.

warch · 05-19-2005, 02:43 PM

I was comparing McCain against his political colleagues, however that shakes, he comes off in the middle.

illegal immigration is a huge problem in arizona and McCain says all the right things and talks about it a lot, but he doesn't support any meaningful change.

Well, he's floated a bill that has sparked debate. Its a variation of Bush's guest worker deal, with a bit more incentive to register through eventual citzenship, if so desired. The talk is moving and that might bring change. Just maybe not the change you find meaningful.

I dont know about airframes. I would be more moved if it was armored vehicles needed on the ground in Iraq.

Land deals...? They're all about making your own money. Thats no real surprise.
As for the leaner, smaller military...isnt that Rumsfeldian?

lookout123 · 05-19-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

I dont know about airframes. I would be more moved if it was armored vehicles needed on the ground in Iraq.

whether we are at war or not, we always have planes in the air. the only thing that varies is the number of hours/missions. that requires aerial refueling. the refueling fleet is in serious trouble due to age. we just phased out an airframe that was in excess of 40 years old in favor of one that came off the line the same year. the only difference was the engine model. the replaced version was obsolete two generations ago, the new one was obsolete one generation ago.

because of the maintenance issues that go along with age, the birds spend a lot of time on the ground and cost a lot of money in hours/missions lost, as well as materials. the new airframe's weren't just new, they had a design that allowed for virtually a complete overhaul in less than 1/3 the time.

armor on the ground is something you hear a lot about in the news, but it is misleading. even if they don't have enough - they do have the newest and best available. aerial refueling is an absolute necessity and it is being done with inferior equipment and not enough of it, at that.

this was nothing than a political play between bush/rumsfeld (who aren't spotless on the issue) and McCain (who thought ego was more important than the mission)

Quote:

Land deals...? They're all about making your own money. Thats no real surprise.

land is about making money. BUT the public purpose that they are raising funds for is the protection of a military base. they have signs posted everyone to show everyone how supportive they are of the base. they will vote and jockey for upgrades to the base. then they will stand by and pretend they are surprised when the base goes on the BRAC. all the while knowing that they can now flip the land to new investors when they jockey to have the old military base turned into a civilian airport. they did it before...

warch · 05-19-2005, 04:08 PM

I'm not in AZ, in the heat of the action, so its interesting to get your perspective.

First, I admit my immense ignorance of Pentagon spending history and military stuffs. Still, it seems to me that there is so much going on with these big contract deals, that to have some essential equiptment blocked just because of ego, seems oversimple. If McCain is checking the power of Rumsfeld/Bush, I wonder what the rest of the story is...

What should happen to old military bases? You support innovation on one hand, preservation on the other? I'm just saying its not a simple thing of supporting the military or not, its which military.
The weasley thing is if he can be pegged for the bait and swich maneuver.

I dont love McCain, he's anti choice, throws bones to the religious right, he didnt question strongly enough the Iraq war, although seems to be pounding the intelligence gaffs after the fact. His economic, corporate, gun, healthcare, education votes are pretty split. He did vote against media conglomeration/monopolies, supports the illusion of govt reform, supports stem cell research,...so he seems willing to disagree with the party, and question when it isnt necessarily the easiest move. I guess that impresses me most. Maybe its a case of Bush's crew making Reganesque republicans look moderate and likeable!

05-19-2005, 02:18 PM	#3
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	to compare a guy against other politicians and say he comes out favorably isn't all that impressive. but...McCain is as big of a back room dealmaker and breaker as you will find. he is supposed to be a friend to the military, but sure doesn't show it when the cameras are off. he had a major hand in killing the Refueler leasing program, and it wasn't because of the numbers. he was pissed that rumsfeld, et al went around his committee, so he killed it out of spite, but then when the cameras were on he was talking about the numbers. by doing that, he totally screwed over Air National Guard units around the country including the one 10 minutes from his Home Office. i can't go into specifics about the airframes involved but the program would have been a HUGE boon to the men and women who need them. while the case can be made that leasing costs more - it would have put the airframes into service years sooner and they are way past the time they were needed. he is part of the group buying up land around a military base that isn't on the BRAC list now, but has been in danger for quite some time. on the surface, the land buy is to help the base remain open for decades to come. the reality is that many of the buyers involved did something similar around another base a few years back. strangely they were unable to stop it from closing. "sorry folks, we couldn't keep the base open. never mind the MILLIONS we just made for ourselves by owning the land around the base. nothing to see here, move along." illegal immigration is a huge problem in arizona and McCain says all the right things and talks about it a lot, but he doesn't support any meaningful change. his #1 talent is in finding the right camera angle , capitalizing on his family name, and his former POW status. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

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05-16-2005, 04:50 PM	#1
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	McCain? were the cameras on? He is an overfluffed media whore. just as i hope the dems can come up with a better choice than Kerry in '08, i plead that the repugnants can come up with someone better than my hometown...hero. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

05-19-2005, 02:02 PM	#2
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Oh, I dunno. I think as far as republicans go, McCain aint bad. He seems to work well with others....has taken good stands against some corprate moves. What are your real beefs?(Other than his camera time.)

05-19-2005, 02:43 PM	#4
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	I was comparing McCain against his political colleagues, however that shakes, he comes off in the middle. illegal immigration is a huge problem in arizona and McCain says all the right things and talks about it a lot, but he doesn't support any meaningful change. Well, he's floated a bill that has sparked debate. Its a variation of Bush's guest worker deal, with a bit more incentive to register through eventual citzenship, if so desired. The talk is moving and that might bring change. Just maybe not the change you find meaningful. I dont know about airframes. I would be more moved if it was armored vehicles needed on the ground in Iraq. Land deals...? They're all about making your own money. Thats no real surprise. As for the leaner, smaller military...isnt that Rumsfeldian?

05-19-2005, 04:08 PM	#6
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	I'm not in AZ, in the heat of the action, so its interesting to get your perspective. First, I admit my immense ignorance of Pentagon spending history and military stuffs. Still, it seems to me that there is so much going on with these big contract deals, that to have some essential equiptment blocked just because of ego, seems oversimple. If McCain is checking the power of Rumsfeld/Bush, I wonder what the rest of the story is... What should happen to old military bases? You support innovation on one hand, preservation on the other? I'm just saying its not a simple thing of supporting the military or not, its which military. The weasley thing is if he can be pegged for the bait and swich maneuver. I dont love McCain, he's anti choice, throws bones to the religious right, he didnt question strongly enough the Iraq war, although seems to be pounding the intelligence gaffs after the fact. His economic, corporate, gun, healthcare, education votes are pretty split. He did vote against media conglomeration/monopolies, supports the illusion of govt reform, supports stem cell research,...so he seems willing to disagree with the party, and question when it isnt necessarily the easiest move. I guess that impresses me most. Maybe its a case of Bush's crew making Reganesque republicans look moderate and likeable!

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