Abortion Debate

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Taking money and taking nutrients directly out of one's bloodstream are different.

Unless you're a Haliburton executive.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

Unless you're a Haliburton executive.

well, touche! (no one thinks of that....... )

[Kitsune]

One who is no longer a parasite to another person.

But what about Siamese twins?

[Undertoad]

I'll take SM's bait with a serious answer to the consciousness question. Consciousness seems to occur with the development of the neocortical brain activity. This happens at about the same time as viability, 5th or 6th month. IMO, consciousness is the best possible answer to when person-dom occurs because conscious thought is what makes us unique amongst the world of all the beings we know.

This is the best scientific answer and I believe that the law should have a scientific basis with a cultural bias rather than the other way around.

[OnyxCougar]

I wrote this big old long thing...

And it was way slanted and not what I wanted to put up here, so I put it on my blog.

I'm moving today!
It was my birfday yesterday! (Thanks to those people who wished me a Happy Birthday, you know who you are!)

Fear not! I'm still lurking, just taking a posting break.

Love you guys....

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

It was my birfday yesterday! (Thanks to those people who wished me a Happy Birthday, you know who you are!)


Love you guys....

Happy Birfday Onyx!


Sidhe

[Happy Monkey]

I think there should be a cutoff point after which medical justification should be required for abortion, but I couldn't go so far as to suggest when that should be.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

I think there should be a cutoff point after which medical justification should be required for abortion,

Why? Do you think there are so many women who would just enjoy a late term abortion, sans good reason, that we need to pass laws against it?

[Happy Monkey]

I haven't the slightest idea if it's frequent enough to merit legislation. If not, great.

[jane_says]

I'm sure there aren't many of them, but my other message board pointed me in the direction of a Yahoo group that was "pro-abortion" in the sense that they like it and get off on it. They post really disgusting stories and pictures of aborted fetuses, etc. and have tons of fiction/fantasy tales they have written themselves. I'm not posting a link.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by jane_says

I'm not posting a link.

Thank you, Thank you!

[Happy Monkey]

I'd guess that some of those people get off more from pissing off anti-abortion people than they do from the stories. Sort of like the "Hermione from Harry Potter countdown to 18" page - set up as a joke, but attracts a few wierdos.

[garnet]

Very interesting quote from Ayn Rand on this subject....

"I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object...Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today's intellectual field, they call themselves 'pro-life.' "
— Ayn Rand

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally Posted by garnet

Very interesting quote from Ayn Rand on this subject....

"I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object...Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today's intellectual field, they call themselves 'pro-life.' "
— Ayn Rand

I don't know how much I agree with that, but I can agree that people today, especially women, are becoming so much harder, so much more "me, me, me." I personally don't understand how someone can justify killing an innocent child--and it is murder, IMO.

Here's something I don't get: why is it that if someone causes a woman to lose her child involuntarily, that's considered fetuscide--murder--and they can be charged, tried, and sent to jail for it; but if a woman willfully kills her own child, that isn't considered fetuscide? Murder is murder, in my book. Either the child has rights and protection under the law, and is therefore considered a person, or it DOESN'T. It shouldn't be both ways.

It's like someone killing a pet. If your next-door neighbor kills your dog, that's animal cruelty, and they can go to jail for it. Likewise, if you abuse and/or kill your dog, the same laws apply to you, although you own the dog. The animal has protections under the law, and it applies equally across the board, no matter WHO violates that law.

So why isn't it the same for babies?


Sidhe

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Lady Sidhe

Here's something I don't get: why is it that if someone causes a woman to lose her child involuntarily, that's considered fetuscide--murder--and they can be charged, tried, and sent to jail for it; but if a woman willfully kills her own child, that isn't considered fetuscide?

I'm not sure that's true. I remember some anti-abortion congressmen tried to pass such a law recently, but I don't know what the status is. I think the usual charge would be forcing a miscarriage, rather than murder.

It's like someone killing a pet. If your next-door neighbor kills your dog, that's animal cruelty, and they can go to jail for it. Likewise, if you abuse and/or kill your dog, the same laws apply to you, although you own the dog. The animal has protections under the law, and it applies equally across the board, no matter WHO violates that law.

Pets are killed by owners all the time, or - perhaps more often - taken to clinics to be killed.