Iraqi Prison Abuse

[Yelof]

I think a successful exit strategy needs to get 3 things right

1) Federalism: the Kurds, the Sunni and the Shia all want to go different directions. The Kurds want to protect their self rule, the Sunni want to protect their previous privillaged position and the Shia want majority voting because they are the majority. Iraq can't be allowed to break up due to the dissabling effect that would have on Turkey, Syria, Saudi and Iran. A difficult balancing act has to be made, each of the three governments has to have some legitimacy, as does the fedral level, the US cannot now deliver that legitimacy, the UN and the Arab league could. US has to allow direct elections in each area without predujcing the result.

2) Exit date: US should announce when it is leaving and that it doesn't intend to keep bases in Iraq, the exception to this would be the Kurds, but if bases are kept in Iraq to further regional goals of the US as is now imagined by Bushco this will enrage many in Iraq. The Iraqi government that comes into being in June has to have the power to ask US withdrawl should it want. US troops should stop policing duties as soon as possible, they all ill suited to it.

3) Money: The US and international donors should continue to invest in Iraq, Iraqi debt should also be written off in a phased manner, the money should go directly to Iraqi control, American contractors are vastly over paided and the money is thus inefficiently spent, less money could be spent in this way. American companies cannot end up owninf too much of Iraqi wealth of else the locals will smell a fish.

I think the US should reduce expectations of what they are going to get out of Iraq, oil flowing rather then oil in American control, peaceful rather then peaceful and friendly, US troops out rather then US troops stationed in convient bases.

Bush is not going to get any of the above right and I hate to think what stage the mess will be in by November when kerry gets to try to fix it. But if the above isn't attempted I think the alternative is Vietnam 2 followed by Lebanon 2

[DanaC]

You know I expect this sort of depraved behavior from Americans, hell we’re a bunch of savages but the British? Well now the world has certainly to hell in a hand basket when properly bred British troops would do something as rude as torture.

I believe we tempered it with cups of tea........

Seriously I rather think the Iraqis are getting used to the British being rude, they've had quite a lot of experience with us in the past.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by ladysycamore


Precisely, and truth be told, I've never felt 100% "safe" anyway, especially knowing that someone could easily drag my black ass behind a truck, like in the case of James Byrd .

Oh, did I go there? I sure did. Homegrown terrorism anyone?

More likely you'd be pushing the truck with Syc steering and yelling "Faster Honey, there's a hill ahead".

[xoxoxoBruce]

Bush To Hand Over Blame on June 30; Donald Rumsfeld says he is 'delighted'.
May 11 - In a nationally televised address, President George W. Bush revealed that the blame for the Iraqi prison abuse scandal would be transferred from the United States to the new Iraqi government on June 30.
"Accepting blame for the prison abuse scandal is an important step in Iraq's
evolution towards democracy," Bush said, adding that accountability for the
scandal must go to the highest levels of Iraq's yet-to-be-appointed government.
"It is my hope that Iraq's new leaders will accept full responsibility for these abuses," Bush told his television audience. "There's an old saying: in a democracy, the dinar stops here."
While diplomatic experts had questioned what exactly the sovereignty handed
over to Iraq on June 30 would consist of, the president made it clear that it would be made up solely of blame for the prison abuse scandal. "As of June 30, we fully expect to put an Iraqi face on this fiasco," Bush said.
At the Pentagon, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that he was
"delighted" by news of the decision to blame the prison scandal on the new Iraqi government. "This is a solution that should satisfy even our toughest critics, because now those critics will be transferred to the new Iraqi government," Rumsfeld said.
Prior to the President's announcement, Rumsfeld had been bracing himself for the release of the Abu Ghraib Golden Edition DVD, including never-before-seen footage and special tormenters' narration. "This DVD is full of extremely radioactive stuff," Rumsfeld said. “Come June 30, the new government of Iraq will have a lot to answer for."

I agree with Warch, in that the worst thing we can do is bail out.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by DanaC
Seriously I rather think the Iraqis are getting used to the British being rude, they've had quite a lot of experience with us in the past.

Yep...I think it's fair to partly blame you fucking limeys for the problems that existed in Iraq prior to the COW invasion.

[Yelof]

Hilarious Bruce!

[richlevy]

Originally posted by Yelof


Lets hope that once Kerry has the election sown up, he can switch to talking about an exit strategy. He doesn't talk about one much now because he is afraid to sound unpatrotic. I think his current strategy of more international involvement might suffer from what Colin Powel called "china shop rules" i.e. you break it you fix it, unless he delivers real sovereignty to the Iraqes and sets a withdrawl date for American troops.

His one advantage would be that he is not George Bush. Bush has so much personal prestige invested in this war and is so hated abroad that noone would want to spend the lives of their citizens to bail the US out if it would benefit him. The whole 'pay to play' announcment for rebuilding contracts was the last bit of hubris to come out of this administration.

Now the US is trying desperately to get Europe, including the 'old Europe' dismissed so casually 17 months ago Old Europe remarks, to buy into Iraq without the US admitting that we made a mistake or are in any kind of trouble. Of course it's really hard to kiss ass if you're trying to save face.

Now that we have broken Iraq, it is in everyone's interest to clean it up. And a sincere request by 'anybody but Bush', coupled with open bidding on reconstruction, will probably get us allies back.