Okay, but no. What kind of car should *I* buy?

[lumberjim]

yeah... too soon to buy one of those. they just remodeled them. go drive the Impreza. check out a WRX.... more expensive, but they hold value really well, and they are a blast.

[footfootfoot]

gonna try the Impreza next.

[lumberjim]

It's funny, my aunt recently asked me what kind of car to look at that she could expect 10-15 years from and I had to tell her to check out Subaru... I like Nissan, but suspect that I am biased. I did like them more than Honda and Toyota before I worked here.... But I also liked vw better than most other cars back then.... So i can't really be trusted, because vw is really crap with quality....

If I look at it from the actuarial view point... Meaning, in my Nissan warranty book for Non-Nissan vehicles , .... which cars are the cheapest to put warrantees on.... Class 1 being cheapest, up to class 9....

(if I recall correctly, which after 3 beers I may not).....Subaru impreza and legacy are class 1, as is Honda civic, and fit. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Subaru forrester, Hyundai elantra, I think maybe Ford fusion, surprisingly enough, are class 2. Camry is class 3, as are most make's entry level cars, like cobalt, caliber, sonata, optima....

Mazda 3 starts at class 4 and they go up from there... Which is troubling because they give you a 5-60 bumper to bumper. Vw are all class 6 and above... Jeep liberty is a 5, all others 6. BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar Audi, Cadillac etc. populate the higher tiers. Lexus are mainly 3-4 which is a coup because high line cars carry high line labor rates....

I am doing this purely from memory, and may be off on one or two items... I should scan the clas guide to illustrate this point. It might be a reliable indicator of cost of ownership....

remind me tomorrow when I'm at work, if you're interested in seeing that

[xoxoxoBruce]

Still zooms over tw's head.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

...If I look at it from the actuarial view point... Meaning, in my Nissan warranty book for Non-Nissan vehicles , .... which cars are the cheapest to put warrantees on.... Class 1 being cheapest, up to class 9....

(if I recall correctly, which after 3 beers I may not).....Subaru impreza and legacy are class 1, as is Honda civic, and fit. Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, Subaru forrester, Hyundai elantra, I think maybe Ford fusion, surprisingly enough, are class 2. Camry is class 3, as are most make's
entry level cars, like cobalt, caliber, sonata, optima....

Mazda 3 starts at class 4 and they go up from there... Which is troubling because they give you a 5-60 bumper to bumper. Vw are all class 6 and above... Jeep liberty is a 5, all others 6. BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar Audi, Cadillac etc. populate the higher tiers. Lexus are mainly 3-4 which is a coup because high line cars carry high line labor rates....

Nothing to do with manufacturers fixing their shit. No reputation protecting, no goodwill, no customer relations. It's selling warrantees on other people's cars. Strictly business, based on vehicle/model history, based on costs, actual spreadsheet numbers.

[AmandaH&K]

Cheapest to put warranties on bc their rates of having to repair them are so low?

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by AmandaH&K

Cheapest to put warranties on bc their rates of having to repair them are so low?

Right... Or the easiest to work on, which I suspect has something to do with those low Suburubian rates. Since you can apparently disassemble the entire car with one 10mm socket wrench.

[AmandaH&K]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

Right... Or the easiest to work on, which I suspect has something to do with those low Suburubian rates. Since you can apparently disassemble the entire car with one 10mm socket wrench.

I so need to get me the correct wrench...

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by AmandaH&K

I so need to get me the correct wrench...

According to Jim, you already are the correct wench...

So, I ended up having to get a very used car while I repair my credit rating. Went from 719 to 514.

I ended up with yet another Hyundai Sonata, 2004, but a trim level below where I had been. Still a V6 just no moon roof. MY brand new snows will fit it. It's in pretty good shape but for some rust. I will be happy if I get 2 more years out of it. it's got 170K miles.

[orthodoc]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

I ended up with yet another Hyundai Sonata, 2004, but a trim level below where I had been. Still a V6 just no moon roof. MY brand new snows will fit it. It's in pretty good shape but for some rust. I will be happy if I get 2 more years out of it. it's got 170K miles.

The Sonata is a great car, and a smart buy when you have brand-new snows that fit. Those aren't cheap and they're necessary anywhere that has a real winter.

[tw]

Originally Posted by AmandaH&K

Cheapest to put warranties on bc their rates of having to repair them are so low?

Very little relationship exists between a warranty and quality. As I learned some 40 years ago when running a GM parts department.

They told me to get out all my warranty repair parts. A GM regional manager arrived to nickel and dime us on each warranty repair. DeLorean says why in his book. GM decided dealers were another profit center to rape. So they only gave us 10 to 25 cents on the dollar for each warranty.

Of course, that meant we did everything possible to deny or not honor a GM warranty.

GM restarted that program some years ago. Mechanics told me about one Cadillac with numerous warranty problems (before they even sold it). The GM rep arrived. Measured tire pressures. Found two tires that were more than 2 PSI from the recommended tire pressure. Then used that as the excuse to deny reinbursement for warranty repairs.

Best warranties are often an indication of a least reliable product. And not just for cars.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Zoom, right over his head.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by tw

Very little relationship exists between a warranty and quality. As I learned some 40 years ago when running a GM parts department.

This 40 year old information, like much of what you state as fact, is no longer valid. In 40 years, we have witnessed the advent of the fax machine, the microwave, the personal computer, the Internet, cell phones, etc, etc....

Why else would companies rate certain cars as more expensive to cover? Nissan even divides it's own vehicles into classes.
Class 1: Versa, Sentra, Cube, Altima, Juke, 2wd rogue, and 2wd frontier.
2: Maxima, Murano, Pathfinder, Quest, and 4x4 rogues and frontiers.
Class 3: Armada, Titan.
Class 4: Gt-R.
Class 5: NV, nvp, nv200.

Of course, that meant we did everything possible to deny or not honor a GM warranty.

GM restarted that program some years ago. Mechanics told me about one Cadillac with numerous warranty problems (before they even sold it). The GM rep arrived. Measured tire pressures. Found two tires that were more than 2 PSI from the recommended tire pressure. Then used that as the excuse to deny reinbursement for warranty repairs.

I have witnessed Nissan extending large scale factory coverage for free twice since I've worked with them. The 04 Quest owners were all GIVEN two additional years of bumper to bumper coverage for free. The people that had bought security plus service contracts were mailed checks to pay them back and keep it fair. This was because those vans were really poor quality. Quite the opposite of what you claim about GM.

The other was a retroactive upgrade for all 2008-2010 cars with a CVT tranny to a 10yr- 120k term. Doubling the standard warranty. And not just for the original owner. This time because the cost of repair or rebuild was prohibitive.

http://www.nissanassist.com/faqs.php?menu=3

I know you have some resentment toward GM, but I highly doubt there is a 'program' in place to systematically deny warranty claims. Dealers sometimes try to get customers to pay for covered items.... And then go ahead and file that warranty claim as well (double dipping, stealing) but most reputable places won't do that. I'm frequently involved in connecting service with the claims people for the things I sell. My Rep reviews our claims ratio and adjusts our premiums periodically for things like tire coverage and key insurance...

Yes, I said key insurance. The fvcking keys are $300 a throw nowadays, so people want insurance... like what you buy with your cell phone.

Best warranties are often an indication of a least reliable product. And not just for cars.

I find the better warranties are found on cars with image issues.

Honda, Toyota, Nissan. The big 3. All three the same. You get 3yr/36,000 b-b, and 5yr/60k power train. No roadside assistance unless you get the service contract.

Because they sell even without anything better. I think that if any of them changes, the other two will follow suit.

Who has longer warranties? High line cars... And trust me, you're paying for it... As well as that free maintenance plan, BMW and Volvo people...
And the Makes that have had safety issues SUZUKI, reliability problems,.. Mitsu, and hyundai, Kia.... Because they have to in order to sell cars.

[tw]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

This 40 year old information, like much of what you state as fact, is no longer valid.

But again, you are only saying what I have said for years - if not decades. The biggest warranties are often hype on the most inferior products.

The Cadillac warranty was denied in 2008. Numerous defects in a new car were dumped on a dealer because two tires had tire slightly low tire pressure. The program in 2008 was similar to one DeLorean described in the 1970s. GM crap products rightly deserved criticism. Their bankruptcy was due to shit products even decades earlier with names such as Hummer, Oldsmobile, and (some of the worst) Pontiac.

Dealers denying warranties have been observed over many decades. For example, a Geo (in the early days of Geo) dropped its transmission in pieces when the car was one year old to the day. A trail of parts beind the car. Dealer charged her for all work and parts. DeLorean said why. GM had been doing this 'dump warranty costs on dealers' for decades. Part of a larger program of playing spread sheet games.

A friend was told an air conditioner compressor on his two year old Cavalier failed because he used it in the winter. Bull. These tactics (lies) are routine on the most inferior products.

Companies with superior reliability do not hype big warranties. Will often honor warranties that are not advertised or widely known. Generally, the concept from responsible companies is, "That should not happen so we will pay." For example, my first Honda Accord at 12 years old had a rusted support bar. This part supported the engine, steering, and front wheels. At 12 years and with well over 100,000 miles, the dealer said, "That should not happen. Honda will replace it for free." Labor took four hours. The part probably cost $400. Wheels, steering gear, and engine had to be disconnected. I never paid a penny.

Due to superior quality and reliability, car companies run by 'car guys' have real world warranties; automaker reinburses the dealer. The concepts demonstrates even back in the 70s when Mazda paid for the rebuilding of every RX-2 and RX-3 rotary engine. Better quality products (not hyping big buck warranties) extend warranties when the product defect should not have happened. Good luck getting GM or Chrysler to have done that.

Best warranties exist with little fanfare. Products that imply mythical quality by hyping big warranties (ie GM, Chrysler) are often some of the worst products. Reliable products have warranties that remain unknown until a rare failure exists.

Big buck warranties are often found on other inferior products. Good luck getting a plug-in surge protector $25,000 warranty honored ... when those devices do not claim to protect from destructive surges. It even has a history of creating house fires. Another perfect example of a 'best' warranty identifying an inferior product.

[AmandaH&K]

You "had to tell her to check out Subaru"...tell her to talk to me, i'll gush enough for anyone

[glatt]

No moon roof to leak. Bonus, IMHO.