Atheists Unite

[infinite monkey]

My more cynical self (naw, not YOU, you say) thinks it was all (by all I mean religion in all its forms) conjured up so that no one ever had to think that when you're done, you're done. You're not a special entity. You are matter, and there isn't a higher matter existing within you that gets to go on to keep acting in the great play of life: Scene 2, Take 1.

And this is when my head blew up.

[DanaC]

Nah. It all makes sense as a part of human development. If you look at the way faith and religions first began to manifest in things like cremation and stone tombs. Each generation builds on what went before. Religion makes perfect sense in that context.

The correlation between social power and religiosity then makes for some more cynical applications. But even those quite often produced socially useful strictures.

[DanaC]

I think the danger there though, is that it is not much of a leap to thinking that we are where we are because that's where God wants us to be. A dangerous lie that sits at the heart of the so-called prosperity gospel.


Being grateful for God for putting food on our tables (in a roundabout way as you suggest) and placing us in a life that allows for happiness and prosperity, carries with it an assumption that God also put those unfortunate people who have less into their positions in life. If we are blessed, then they are cursed. Quite aside from the implied judgement on those who are not blessed, it also risks letting the rest of us (society and government) off the hook for the inequity in our society.


[eta] not suggesting that's what you are teaching your kids of course :p Nowt wrong with a little recognition of one's good fortune as a kid.

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Being grateful for God for putting food on our tables (in a roundabout way as you suggest) and placing us in a life that allows for happiness and prosperity, carries with it an assumption that God also put those unfortunate people who have less into their positions in life. If we are blessed, then they are cursed.

When there is some kind of disaster or tragedy and someone says, "god saved me", there's this implied, "and he killed all those other losers."

[infinite monkey]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

When there is some kind of disaster or tragedy and someone says, "god saved me", there's this implied, "and he killed all those other losers."

Or "you are so beautiful to me" implies "I don't care if everyone else thinks you're a butt ugly slag."

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

When there is some kind of disaster or tragedy and someone says, "god saved me", there's this implied, "and he killed all those other losers."

Exactly.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

When there is some kind of disaster or tragedy and someone says, "god saved me", there's this implied, "and he killed all those other losers."

I like the Neville Brothers version of this song:

Oh my name it means nothing, and my age it means less.
For the country I come from, is called the Midwest.
I was taught and brought up, to the laws to abide.
That the land that I live in,has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it,they tell it so well.
The Cavalries charged,and the Indians fell.
The cavalries charged,and the Indians died.
Oh The Country was young then, with God on its side.

The Spanish-American, War had its day.
And the civil war to us, was soon laid away.
And the names of the heroes, I was made to memorize.
With guns in their hands, and God on their side.

The First World War,it came and it went.
And the reason for fighting,I never did get.
But I learned to accept it, accept it with pride.
For you don't count the dead, when God's on your side.

In the nineteen-sixties,came the Vietnam war.
Can someone tell me, what we were fighting for?
So many young men died, so many mothers cried.
No I ask the question, was God on our side?

I learned to hate the russians, all through my whole life.
If another war comes, it's them must fight.
And to hate them and fear, to run and to hide.
And accept it all bravely, with God on my side.

Through many dark hours, I've been thinkin' bout' this.
That Jesus Christ was betrayed by a kiss.
But I can't think for you, you'll have to decide.
Whether Judas Iscariot had God on his side.

Now that I'm leaving, I'm weary as hell.
The confusion I"m feeling, ain't no tongue cna tell.
The words fill my head, and they fall to the floor.
That if God's on our side, he'll stop the next war.
Jesus loves me, this I know.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by DanaC

If we are blessed, then they are cursed.

See, if I *think* about it, then I have to go in the atheist direction.

But I suppose the religious response to you could be that yes we are blessed, and it's our responsibility to help the less fortunate. We can't help them all, but we can help a little. And we do.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by glatt

See, if I *think* about it, then I have to go in the atheist direction.

But I suppose the religious response to you could be that yes we are blessed, and it's our responsibility to help the less fortunate. We can't help them all, but we can help a little. And we do.

But,but... why hasn't god already blessed them too?

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

But,but... why hasn't god already blessed them too?

I don't know. It sure looks like he's a jerk though, doesn't it?

[Clodfobble]

I don't define "God" as the bearded man in the sky, and many religious people I know don't either. If anything, my concept of a God is of a more scientific, concept-of-infinity, origin-of-energy-in-the-system kind of thing. God's not remotely human-like, and I don't think he's watching, doing, changing, or caring about us in the sense that we use those words. Kind of a "oneness of the whole" is the farthest I'll go, I guess. Maybe that's more in the realm of Zen, I don't know, I've never felt compelled to study any of it.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I don't define "God" as the bearded man in the sky, and many religious people I know don't either. If anything, my concept of a God is of a more scientific, concept-of-infinity, origin-of-energy-in-the-system kind of thing. God's not remotely human-like, and I don't think he's watching, doing, changing, or caring about us in the sense that we use those words. Kind of a "oneness of the whole" is the farthest I'll go, I guess.

This is pretty close to where I am on the subject.

I have two self-described atheistic daughters in Catholic school and an atheistic woman in my bed, so Imma cool with atheism. The girls are probably less sympathetic to religion, since they deal with it daily.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Griff

This is pretty close to where I am on the subject.

I have two self-described atheistic daughters in Catholic school and an atheistic woman in my bed, so Imma cool with atheism. The girls are probably less sympathetic to religion, since they deal with it daily.

The most emphatic anti-theists I know attended Catholic schools. I know one atheist who is sending her kids to a Catholic school just to make sure they come out atheists.

ETA: Be hilarious if it backfires.

[Pico and ME]

When couched in human terms like that, then I can definitely go along with a concept of 'god'...but I think there is a much better name for it. There's nothing wrong with having a 'collective group think'. We are social creatures first after all. But that is not a god in the way humans have created it.

ETA: Ummm, I think I may have distorted your meaning a bit, Clod.

[DanaC]