O' Wise Ones, I Need Your Counsel

[wolf]

Time to get the old biker buds over to sit on the front porch and drink beer and clean their guns, is it?

[bartman]

Recently someone showed up at my mother's house looking for a shirt that my sister had borrowed. They (there was 3 of them) forced their way in, threatened my mother and my sister, and wouldn't leave even after my mother asked them to. They ended up going to jail.

[Edit]
My mother is a 60-year-old woman who has had a stroke and walks with a cane. The cops know her pretty well, and if she says that something happened, they believe her
[/Edit]

If they had been in MY house refusing to leave, their corpses would have been removed by the coroner. I don't think anyone should put up with that kind of shit.

Are these little shits comitting this stuff on your property? Have you asked them to leave? Depending on laws in your state, this may be all you have to do before you can use self-defence as an excuse to remove them from the gene pool.

[Uryoces]

Originally posted by hot_pastrami
Unfortunately these things seldom end until contact between the kids is eliminated, or the picked-on manages to turn the tables by kicking some ass or getting some big friends.

Big friends are a temporary solution. The only way the situation is going to change is when one of your children kicks the living crap out of one the neighborhood monsters. I know this from experience as a picked on kid. After that, it should die down to nothing. Kids don't respect authority; they don't even understand the language. They do understand Morse code, as is in "Let me telegraph this punch to your cake-hole". Sometime you do have to fight.

As to the large pentagram on the side of your house: I bet the idiot neighbors think you're a satan worshipper. I understand the pointy end up means Wiccan--among other things, they probably don't.

I'd remove it til this blows over, unless the neighbors have huge, brightly-lit menorahs, crucifixes, or crescent moons at their places.

[Elspode]

The kid who is the main problem has been escorted off of my property by my wife (I wasn't home at the time) and told never to return, so we've got that covered. The cop I talked to last night informed me that I could use reasonable force to restrain him the next time it happens, and I assure you that I will. Handcuffs formerly employed solely for entertainment purposes are now sitting by the front door awaiting the application of said reasonable force, in fact. Next time he sets foot in my yard, he isn't walking out of it, because his wrist will be chained to his ankle behind his back.

Interestingly, my wife has just learned from the middle school principal to whom she spoke about our ongoing travails with said youth that the kid did not return home last night, and apparently my kids are the last to have seen him (during the final ride-by shouting he committed at about 21:00 CDT), as far as they know. So not only did my heart-to-heart talk with the wanna-be little shit *not* intimidate him, it may have just pushed him over the line into walking the walk he was only talking.

I suppose it would be too much to hope that he crossed up someone who didn't have any compunction about kicking the shit out of a teenage kid, huh?

[Elspode]

Originally posted by Uryoces


As to the large pentagram on the side of your house: I bet the idiot neighbors think you're a satan worshipper. I understand the pointy end up means Wiccan--among other things, they probably don't.

I'd remove it til this blows over, unless the neighbors have huge, brightly-lit menorahs, crucifixes, or crescent moons at their places.

I appreciate the thought, but I'm not copping out...I've known most of my neighbors my whole life, and if they think I'm a satanist, then they're just hopeless anyway.

[wolf]

So the little bastards already know you're into "that occult stuff". let them know you're doing it. AT them. Be as dramatic as necessary. Of course, don't do anything that will get YOU bit by the rule of three.

[Elspode]

It is not a violation of the Law of Three or The Rede to protect yourself...

[vsp]

Originally posted by wolf
So the little bastards already know you're into "that occult stuff". let them know you're doing it. AT them. Be as dramatic as necessary. Of course, don't do anything that will get YOU bit by the rule of three.

And don't discount the possibility that if you scare them shitless with dramatics, they might retreat into brain-dead "Non-Christian BAD!" land and physically attack those that are different. Looking over your shoulder whenever you walk out to your car in fear of being jumped or shot is no way to live, either.

[Uryoces]

I had a conversation with a 15 year old when I was was a senior in high school [back in the Iron Age]. Why I even had to have the conversation, I'll never know; this kid was dense.

The conversation was basically:
"So what would you do if I were to pound the sausage out of you?" I asked with annoyance.
"I'd call the cops!" was the response. It was the wrong response to give in front of his friends, because he'd just shown weakness.
"Okay, fair enough. But what's keeping me from kicking your ass. Right. Now. At. This. Very. Moment", I said, puncuating the last phrase. Idiot thought about that for a minute, then his eyes widened, and he stared at me. He walked away, and I never had to have the conversation again.
The answer, of course, was nothing.

[hot_pastrami]

Originally posted by Uryoces
The only way the situation is going to change is when one of your children kicks the living crap out of one the neighborhood monsters.

I was a picked-on kid myself in my younger years. The guy who was the worst was in junior high, and every day for months he'd push me around and talk shit to me. I got fed up one day and decided to settle it right there, and when it was done it was him lying on the floor. The problem is that two days later, he brought two of his friends with him. Now, I was lucky, and managed to convince his friends that it wasn't worth the shit they'd catch to beat up some kid they didn't even know... and I dropped a hint that if they followed through with this I'd find them alone some time and pound them into a fine paste. So they took off, and the original guy was too cowardly to face me alone, so after that the problem went away.

Just be cautious of advising your kids to retaliation in this matter, because it can settle things, or it can raise the bar, and have the other little shits bringing along friends/weapons/etc.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Are the perps THE bullies of the school?
Are they PART of the bullies of the school?
Are they ONE of the bullies of the school?
If it's the latter, then the others bullies could be used.
Mercenaries

[elSicomoro]

I was tormented a lot as a kid...very few punches, mostly name-calling. Finally, during the early part of my sophomore year of high school, I finally realized what it would take to stop it. In general, I just ignored the b.s. But a few well placed borderline-insane remarks, intimidation tactics, and a massive shift in confidence that would be obvious to anyone seemed to stop the problems dead in their tracks. I have had few problems since.

Ep, I want to delve a bit more into all this. Grandview is a relatively middle-class suburb, right? Low crime? White collar or working class? And what about your kids? Well-liked? Nerdy? Fat?

Based on the sucker punch, that should be enough for an assault charge on the kid. Did you file a police report and charges? At the least, he'd have to spend a few nights in Juvi. And you're in Jackson County, right? If he's a little middle-class snotrag, that might scare the shit out of him.

Do you have a lawyer? Have a lawyer send a certified letter to the kids' parents/guardians insisting that they cease and desist. Equip your oldest with an emergency cell phone so that they can call 5-0 at the first sign of trouble.

And there's always strength in numbers. And I'm not talking about getting 5 big guys to go fuck those punks' worlds up. I'm talking about just having several friends around them when they're out, if possible.

I'll write more based on your responses to this.

(In Sycamore's Utopia, he would put bullets in the back of the kids' heads, then chop their bodies up and toss the pieces into the Missouri River. The parents, guardians, extended family, and even pets would not be safe. But this is reality, so I hope some of my legal suggestions help. )

[Elspode]

[quote]Originally posted by sycamore
[b]Ep, I want to delve a bit more into all this. Grandview is a relatively middle-class suburb, right? Low crime? White collar or working class? And what about your kids? Well-liked? Nerdy? Fat?

***Very middle class. Mostly hard working people, blue collar and lower echelon white collar types. Crime is much lower here than in KC proper, but higher than, say, Lee's Summit or Overland Park, much higher average income areas. Grandview has undergone a tremendous racial balance change over the past twenty years, going from 90% Caucasian to about 50-50 Caucasian/African American. However, the income ranges and working class natures are roughly the same. Despite this, crime is much higher in Grandview now than it was when I was a kid. Mostly car thefts, burglary, nickel and dime stuff, but we have about one murder every couple of years anymore. There is plenty of Section 8 housing in the city limits, and we border on the north with Ruskin Heights, which is quite predominantly lower to lower-middle class these days. Where we have a lot of problems is in situations like the main perp...he lives with his grandma, probably doesn't even know his folks for the most part. I assume he probably ended up here after having lived his earlier years under much more grevious circumstances. We get a lot of kids shipped out of the inner city to come live with relatives who have moved into this 'safer' neighborhood, and they bring their 'hood ways with them. There's an amazing amount of Gangsta bullshit out here. My kids? The older one should have his picture next to the word "nerd" in the dictionary. Classic geek, but smart and a good kid. Neither are obese...a bit chubby, perhaps, but not "fat". The youngest one is a pistol...won't take shit off of anyone, and that's part of the problem. He doesn't know how to walk away, but he's learning. The harassment that these little hoods give my kids is unbelieveable...daily, intense, highly insulting, neverending.

Based on the sucker punch, that should be enough for an assault charge on the kid. Did you file a police report and charges? At the least, he'd have to spend a few nights in Juvi. And you're in Jackson County, right? If he's a little middle-class snotrag, that might scare the shit out of him.

***Yep, Jackson County...Truman country. We even have a shopping center in Grandview called Truman Corners, built on the old Truman family farm lands. I don't think the kid is middle class himself, he's too low class for that. I assume his grandmother is like most folks, probably not a hell of a lot older than me, likely worked her ass off for nothing her whole life so she could get out of the ghetto and out to suburbia. I don't think a couple of nights in Juvi is gonna scare this kid, I think he's too far gone for that. Yes, cops were called after the punching incident, but I don't know the result of the legal stuff because I can't get the officer who dealt with it to call me back.

Do you have a lawyer? Have a lawyer send a certified letter to the kids' parents/guardians insisting that they cease and desist. Equip your oldest with an emergency cell phone so that they can call 5-0 at the first sign of trouble.

***Half the people I know are lawyers, so there's no problem there. I still haven't been able to find out where the kid lives, and as I said, last I heard, he's not come home since yesterday after school. Regarding the oldest kid's problems, I spoke with the school resource officer today and provided him with a license number and info on the harrassment and threats he's been dealing with on his walks home after school, and the fact those kids had even lurked outside our home.

And there's always strength in numbers. And I'm not talking about getting 5 big guys to go fuck those punks' worlds up. I'm talking about just having several friends around them when they're out, if possible.

***Right now, neither of them is allowed to go anywhere unescorted, and it will stay that way until we get some response from GVPD. My wife picked them up from school today, and their father will pick them up next week until we drive back into town to take them out to the Pagan Festival with us.

I'll write more based on your responses to this.

[Elspode]

I want to say that I very much appreciate all your comments, folks...we've going to get a little break here over the next week, plus school will then be out, so that should ease some of it, although I'll still have to keep the kids pretty close to home for their own safety. Our place is sort of a refuge for a lot of the more disaffected and unaccepted kids around town anyway, and it is a safe and honest place to be. We don't mind that, because my own mother was kind of that way. We've always taken in strays, both human and animal. The energy is just that way here. We might be the biggest weirdos on the block, but we are intelligent, loving, concerned and willing to help. Hell, I'd even help the little bastard who is causing the biggest problem, but I don't think he's very receptive.

Anyway, I'll be offline until after Memorial Day as I'll be helping to run one of the biggest Pagan festivals in the country for the next week. Five days of naked women, dancing and drumming around the fire, swilling the best home-brewed mead you can imagine, listening to kickass bands, shopping for unique jewelry and groovy gimcracks, and otherwise wishing that I didn't have to work for a living. I'll try and take a few discreet digital pics and share them when I get back. If curious, check out our organization's web site at http://www.kchsa.org and the Gaea Retreat Center's site (where the Fest is held each year) at http://www.campgaea.org .

Thanks again to all of you. I thank my gods daily that I found such a great place to hang online.

[Griff]

It might be a good idea to enlist all the adults in your community. Maybe form an informal or formal neighborhood watch. If your kids are being harassed its only a matter of time before other people around you get hassled. If you were able to get a court order any neighbor seeing these kids hanging around could drop a dime. You've got to get everybody on the same page. You all want a safe neighborhood.