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#16 | |
dripping with ignorance
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grand Forks ND
Posts: 642
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Quote:
Really though, if she has straight A's and has been excepted to the top schools it's not like her future employers are going to frown on the fact that she was co-valedictorian, all that means is she had someone in her class that was just as smart, nothing wrong with that.
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After the seventh beer I generally try and stay away from the keyboard, I apologize for what happens when I fail. |
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#17 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,486
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My independent study classes were not counted as part of my GPA in high school...only as high school credits.
I don't think the girl has a beef. It appears that the school district treated her fairly in respect to the ADA, and other students should not be punished b/c of her disability (which is how this comes across to me). |
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#18 |
Your Bartender
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
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You've all done an admirable job piling on. I'm not going to say she doesn't deserve it. The number one reason to not file a lawsuit in a situation like this is precisely to avoid negative reaction. I'm not going to reiterate all the reasons to consider her a whiny ingrate; everybody else has done a great job at that and I actually agree with most of what has been said (without endorsing the more blunt epithets).
But let's look at a few more things that incline me to think that the school has behaved badly--in addition to, not instead of, Hornstine. First of all, many comments have said something to the effect that "she doesn't deserve to be valedictorian." Well NOBODY deserves to be valedictorian. There is generally a RULE which dictates how the valedictorian is chosen. And in the case of the Moorestown School District, this rule is very simple: "The senior student with the highest seventh semester WGPA will be named the valedictorian." It doesn't say ANYTHING about exceptions, or co-valedictorians, or anything. The WGPA is the *weighted* grade point average and is supposed to take course difficulty into account. (You get 4.0 for an A or 4.3 for A+ in a "standard" course; 4.5 or 4.8 for an "honors" course; and 5.0 or 5.3 in an "AP" course.) Is it too much to ask for the school district to follow its own rules? Of course we all know this effort to codify and standardize course difficulty is ridiculous. Maybe AP European History is harder than AP Calculus. Tough, you just get a 5.0 for an A in either case. Is that fair? Let's go to Superintendent Kadri: "The superintendent said two other seniors with near-perfect grades could not have earned high enough weighted grades to surpass Hornstine because they are 'subject to the rigorous in-school grading standards employed by certain advanced placement teachers.'" Wait--you're telling me some teachers grade harder than others?? Stop the presses! If I lived in Moorestown I'd immediately be on the phone to Kadri to ask him for the names of those "certain advanced placement teachers" so I could put my kids in the AP courses without the rigorous instructors. The only way this matters is if somebody decided that the courses Hornstine did at home were worth AP credit. If not, if they're just standard courses, then Hornstine can get the same points for getting an A in this course that another student can get for a B in an AP course. Clearly Hornstine got AP credit for the courses or her WGPA wouldn't be higher than everybody else's. So, who decided it was OK for her courses to get AP credit? I'm guessing the principal, if not the superintendent himself, signed off on it. Now, you might argue whether this was a good decision or not. I personally think it probably wasn't, but I don't really care because I think the whole grading and handicapping of children's academic performance is ridiculous either way. But at any rate, somebody decided they should count those courses as APs for Hornstine when they did her WGPA. Oh yeah, Kadri... poor guy, my heart goes out to him. I know he's having a bad month. Who put him up to this? I dare say at any school there are probably no more than a dozen students at the outside in each class who are in any danger of being valedictorian, and it's probably usually MUCH smaller. In this case, there seem to be two others besides Hornstine. I'm pretty sure that a student sitting there with a 3.7 average probably doesn't care a whole lot whether the student with the 5.19 or the student with the 5.13 gets it, unless he happens to be friends with the student. Until Hornstine screwed up by filing a lawsuit, nobody really cared... except Hornstine, the other two students, and their families and friends. I guarantee you, somebody connected with one of those other two students complained to Kadri and lit a fire under him. (And they had the brains to do it without involving any lawyers--tho I wouldn't be surprised if there were veiled threats of lawyers.) I bet there are some teachers involved too. Why wouldn't there be? It's probably a safe bet that there is some desire on the part of at least some teachers to punish Hornstine for not being in class enough. So, here's what I think should happen.
Finally, you can't have it both ways: If you think "Hornstine shouldn't mind sharing the honors," then the honors weren't worth much to start with, and it shouldn't be a big deal if somebody else doesn't get them. If you think being the valedictorian is valuable and a great achievement, then you have to acknowledge that its value is due to its singularity. Hell, why not have 5 or 6 co-valedictorians? I'm sure there are plenty of smart kids in Moorestown. We can dump on Hornstine all we want for the way she's handling this, but if you think it's a signal honor to be valedictorian, then you can't say she ought to be happy to share it. Having said that, I don't think it makes a damn bit of practical difference to anybody. You think Harvard has trouble getting applications from valedictorians around the country? Contrariwise do they populate their entire student body with valedictorians? Please. The fact that she has all her college acceptances in her pocket and will keep them whether she's valedictorian or not (as several people have rightly pointed out) just shows how worthless the title is. This whole thing reminds me of when my kids fight over who gets to eat dinner with the "special" fork. Except in that case the kids have decided between themselves that one fork is, for no reason apparent to the grownups, "special," and they are fighting over it while the grownups tell them to stop being ridiculous. In the case of the valedictorian story, the fork has been fabricated and supplied by the adults and the children have been encouraged to fight for it. My favorite response thus far was from warch: "Scrap the whole valedictorian thing, scrap the drinking age. The school board should buy every kid who is still alive at the age of 18 a beer." So what should Hornstine have done? Very simple. She should have issued this statement, which I would have been happy to write for her before it became too late: "I understand that some people on the school board are concerned about comparing apples to oranges with my IEP and the standard curriculum in the determination of valedictorian and that there is talk of having a co-valedictorian. I strenuously object to such a solution because I feel that there should be only one valedictorian. If the school board feels that the fabulous educational experiences I have had at Moorestown High do not suit me for competition for valedictorian, then I think their proper course of action is to appoint another student rather than have an embarassing charade of "co-valedictorians." I prefer rather to affirm the words of the school district's grading policy: 'The academic environment in Moorestown High School is very challenging. The majority of our students meet that challenge by earning exemplary grades. The comparisons among students inherent in rank-in-class calculation unnecessarily increases competition within the school. Further, we believe that our students’ levels of achievement are not equitably or fully communicated by this single figure transcript statistic. Therefore, Moorestown High School no longer reports class rank.' I thank all the teachers here for their help over the last four years, and I wish my fellow graduates of the class of 2003 every success." She might have lost the valedictorianship with this gambit, but she would have made it impossible for any other student to get it without a mental asterisk by their name, and most importantly, she would have made the school board look less mature than she is instead of having everybody complaining that she's a crybaby. |
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#19 |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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NO! They should duct tape the co-valedictorians left wrists together and let them fight it out with knives.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#20 | |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,486
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Quote:
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#21 |
Your Bartender
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
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I guess it'd be a short fight.
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#22 |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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I didn't forget.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#23 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,486
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Last edited by elSicomoro; 07-12-2003 at 09:01 AM. |
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#24 |
Your Bartender
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
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Yowzer! And probably nobody would have noticed if they hadn't filed a lawsuit. Wonder what her backup school was?
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#25 |
The future is unwritten
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
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Heh, heh, heh. There is a God.
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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#26 |
lobber of scimitars
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phila Burbs
Posts: 20,774
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If this all turns out to be true, particularly if any evidence of plagarism is uncovered in her high school work, Miss "I didn't know I had to credit stuff I used in the newspaper articles too" won't be gaining admission to Camden County Community College any time soon, either ...
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![]() ![]() "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis |
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#27 |
Junior Master Dwellar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Kingdom of Atlantia
Posts: 2,979
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If it turns out that she plagarized more than her newspaper articles, could they yoink valedictorian away from her?
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Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt |
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#28 |
Your Bartender
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philly Burbs, PA
Posts: 7,651
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Probably so. I just hope if they're going to do it they go after all the plagiarists. I guarantee you she's not the only one in Harvard's entering freshman class, and she's not the only one in the Moorestown High graduating class.
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#29 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,486
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This is the cover of this morning's Philadelphia Daily News:
![]() Onyx, I'd say yeah. The school district has already said they're going to review her school work. However, since the valedictorian issue originally wound up in court, it seems likely that it would wind up there again, should the school strip her of the title. The others schools she was accepted to are Stanford, Cornell, Princeton, and Duke (according to the original article Steve posted). But according to this newer article, it may be too late for her to go to any of those now. And as far as the scrutiny...you seemed to side with her initial argument, Steve, but you have to admit that she brought this on herself. She took the risk by taking this whole thing to court, and she knew there could be adverse consequences as a result. Dem's the breaks. Last edited by elSicomoro; 07-12-2003 at 10:03 AM. |
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#30 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Heh. She deserves what she gets.
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