Computers the control the power grid have been hacked

[xoxoxoBruce]

Being childish, as well as wrong, certainly isn't helping your credibility.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by classicman

Former CIA operative Robert Baer:

...from a speech at the national defense university and they were hit by the Chinese ...

Bullshit. Without going into a long, boring explanation, suffice it to say that there is no way you can tell which country the hackers are coming from. For example, someone in the US could route the hack through a Chinese state computer to make it look like China was behind it. I wouldn't even put the US Government past doing that for political ends.

Either Baer is an idiot or he thinks we are.

[Flint]

Could cyber attackers bring down the U.S. electrical grid?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What pisses me off is the electric companies, having be given the monopoly that has made them rich, won't do this on there own. It's going to take an act of congress, literally, to protect us. WTF?

Yepparoo. THAT really irks me as well. It's not like they don't have the money, and they haven't known this needed to be done. And... this is yet another fucking example of why we DON'T have a true capitalist system. HA!

While we're on the subject, another thing that totally pisses me off, is the electric company heads have actually come out and said, if Obama passes cap and trade, they will simply pass that cost on to their customers. WTF? They have known FOR YEARS this would eventually come if they didn't get their act together, but now they want more time? Are you fucking kidding me? grrrrrr

[sugarpop]

It's not like they haven't known FOR YEARS that we are vulnerable to this kind of attack...

From 2003: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cyberwar/

[classicman]

Excellent link Flint, thanks.

[Flint]

I look at Tech Republic every day.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Excellent link Flint, thanks.

So read what is written:

am a retired engineer, formerly employed by 2 electric utilities ... So I (think) I know a little about SCADA systems and how they operate.

EVERY SCADA system that I have ever seen use its own dedicated communication network to carry data between the Master Station (the “base”), and the substation Remote Terminal Units (RTU’s) and with the powerplants. The Master Station is manned 24 hours per day, seven days per week, 52 weeks per year. In other words, ALL THE TIME. So if something happens, the knowledgeable, experienced operator can take immediate steps to counteract the event.

How can this be if enemies are lurkering everywhere as classicman says?

Reality: risks to the grid are typically traceable to companies with a history of bad management. One company that has long been a concern is First Energy whose president (Anthony Alexander) did not even know how the grid works. Who was even in Seaside Heights NJ blaming those local blackouts on the township - and then the lights went out again while he was speaking.

The real risk to the grid are companies that do not implement industry standard practices. Not some evil being hiding under every bed as wackoboy claims. And yes, wackoboy - I am doing exactly what you were doing for months. However my facts come from reality - not from Rush Limbaugh and his peers.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Bullshit. Without going into a long, boring explanation, suffice it to say that there is no way you can tell which country the hackers are coming from. For example, someone in the US could route the hack through a Chinese state computer to make it look like China was behind it. I wouldn't even put the US Government past doing that for political ends.

With all due respect you are quite wrong.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

With all due respect you are quite wrong.

I respectfully disagree.

[TheMercenary]

The NSA with the cooperation of various national governmental security agencies can track the origination of most anything. There have been a number of really good books over the years that documented how they do it. I could reference them if you are interested.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I could reference them if you are interested.

I am interested - just pick the top one or two in the interest of time.

Sorry I can't reciprocate but my info comes from less than official channels.

[TheMercenary]

This was an early book that came out and much of the stuff this guy discovered lead many DOD computer systems to change the way they did business. It was a pretty good read.

The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage

http://www.amazon.com/Cuckoos-Egg-Tr...470921&sr=1-11

This was a great read about how the NSA works, esp overseas in the UK and Aust.

Chatter: Dispatches from the Secret World of Global Eavesdropping

http://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Dispat...9471074&sr=1-2

This is a long assed read but well researched.

The Puzzle Palace: Inside the National Security Agency, America's Most Secret Intelligence Organization

http://www.amazon.com/Puzzle-Palace-...9471153&sr=1-4

Originally Posted by tw

Reality: risks to the grid are typically traceable to companies with a history of bad management. One company that has long been a concern is First Energy whose president (Anthony Alexander) did not even know how the grid works. Who was even in Seaside Heights NJ blaming those local blackouts on the township - and then the lights went out again while he was speaking.

The real risk to the grid are companies that do not implement industry standard practices...

I think that pretty much sums it up.

IMO, the greatest failure of the last eight years in the area of national security was the near total lack of focus on securing the critical infrastructure - electric grid, water treatment facilities, nuclear plants, etc.

The failure resulted from a total reliance on voluntary compliance by the private industries in question...another failure of the free market that put profit above national security.

I would hope to see more federal spending and more mandatory infrastructure security requirements implemented.

[classicman]

So what you are saying is that the answer to almost ever discussion on the board is more Gov't control.