Dear Mr. Obama - Page 2

Radar · 09-07-2008, 12:42 AM

It turns out you aren't the only Iraqi vet, and the majority are against the war in Iraq.

I am also a vet and the MAJORITY of all combat vets, especially those who went to Iraq, are against the war in Iraq and the so-called "war on terror" because they know Al Queda had nothing to do with Iraq, that they aren't defending America by being in Iraq, and that the American government lied to the American people about Iraq posing a danger.

Most vets, myself included, would die defending America if it were attacked, but would be furious at their government if it sent them into battle unnecessarily, illegally, and against a non-threat. Most would rather have their blood shed only when absolutely necessary and when it is in the defense of America. This is the very least America owes to American service men & women.

Undertoad · 09-07-2008, 08:45 AM

Two minutes at the Military Times site turned up this poll. For our fellow critical thinkers:

Active duty poll, end of 07 (you would certainly expect more favorable numbers today):

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/20...epoll_iraq.php

9) Should the U.S. have gone to war in Iraq?
Yes

46.1%

No

34.2%

No opinion

10.9%

Decline to answer

8.9%

classicman · 09-07-2008, 11:35 AM

Radar

This whole Iraqi vet claim of yours is new to me. Please elaborate on your "service there. When/why were you there?

I'd have thought that would have made it to your bio - somewhere above the casino craps dealer certainly.
I would bet my last dollar that a "Award Winning Libertarian Activist" (Your Quote - see profile) Would have certainly made a stand and refused to fight in this this this.... how did you put it? link oh yeah "illegal invasion of Iraq."

Radar · 09-07-2008, 12:34 PM

I didn't say I was an Iraqi combat vet. I'm a vet, but not a combat vet, and I got out of the Navy just before the 1st gulf war. I said he's not the only Iraqi combat vet and that most Iraqi combat vets are against the war in Iraq.

Pay attention to what I'm actually saying.

You are correct in your assumption that I'd have enough honor, integrity, and courage to refuse the unlawful order to take part in an invasion of Iraq when they posed no danger to our own company and there was no formal declaration of war. Unlike those who went to Iraq, I actually took my oath seriously.

For the record, anyone who claims Americans blatantly unconstitutional (aka illegal) invasion of Iraq by American soldiers from 1991 to the present is anything but completely illegal is a blithering idiot.

classicman · 09-07-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

Pay attention to what I'm actually saying.

Its hard to take the little bit of something useful out of all the propaganda, sorry.

Radar · 09-07-2008, 08:55 PM

I'm straightforward, honest, and clear about everything I say. Perhaps you're having a tough time because you can't discern truth from propaganda. I always tell the truth. If you mistake anything I say for propaganda, it shows a problem with your perception, not with my message.

Big Sarge · 09-08-2008, 05:35 PM

Radar - I was checking on some things you said & I'm confused. Please help me to understand.

"McCain got a D rating on Veterans issues from the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America. Barack Obama got a B+. Also the 10,000 IAVA were allowed to deliver a report to Barack Obama, but McCain turned them away".

Where did you come up with the number 10,000? The IVAW states there were only 2 squads of 25 each that led a march of 10,000. This number also included Rage Against the Machine and Flobots. The so called report was a message calling for the "Immediate withdrawal, full veterans benefits, and reparations for the Iraqi people" (IVAW website).

"The guy in your video represents a tiny minority of veterans. Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq."

If we accept your total of 10,000 veterans being against the war, you must consider that is less than 0.7% of the app. 1.7 million troops who have served in OIF & OEF. Troop strengths are based upon reporting on the VoteVets, IVAW, and IAVA sites.

Maybe you can help me to understand?

classicman · 09-07-2008, 09:16 PM

Your interpretation of "truth" is not the same as mine and that's ok with me. Your one vote means no more or less than mine - we are equal in that regard no matter how distasteful you find it.

Radar · 09-07-2008, 10:13 PM

The mere fact that you think the truth is an "interpretation" proves that you don't know the meaning of the word "truth". But that's ok, most Republicans don't.

SamIam · 09-07-2008, 10:29 PM

Radar's in fine form today. Those rapscallion republicans don't stand a chance.

Radar · 09-07-2008, 11:14 PM

How long have you been waiting to use the word "rapscallion" in a sentence?

LOL

lookout123 · 09-08-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq.

"most vets"? or "most vets radar meets at his extreme libertarian rant meetings"?

morethanpretty · 09-08-2008, 12:25 PM

I have to say Big Sarge, I don't support the war in Iraq and I want it to be finished. I think its a mire and will be very difficult to minimize the damage to US/Islam relations (that were already horrible enough). Unfortunately, at this point, I believe limiting our military presence is the best option, and supporting the new country in other ways (generalization sorry). Not only is it a drain on our resources, the longer we stay the more of those people who welcomed our presence will begin to resent it. I supported taking Hussein out, and believe he deserved what he got, but I'm not sure we took the best path to do that. Perhaps we acted to rash out of our fear of attack. I will always support the troops. Just because I don't support a military action I feel was made based on lies and emotion, does not mean I don't love and support our people who are doing their best for our country. It is that same love and support that makes it my responsibility to try to bring them home.

Big Sarge · 09-08-2008, 05:38 PM

MTP - it is not a mire. We have made significant success following the troop surge. Even Obama has admitted the troop surge was a success.

Radar · 09-08-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

MTP - it is not a mire. We have made significant success following the troop surge. Even Obama has admitted the troop surge was a success.

You can't win an occupation. You can't win an illegal war and anyone who says the war in Iraq is not only a fucking retard, they are a traitor.

The troops surge did nothing and changed nothing. Whether America leaves Iraq in a month or in 50 years, the moment we leave, they will break out into civil war. We had no legitimate reason to have a single American solder at any time in history; this includes the illegal war in 1991, the 12 subsequent years of bombing Iraq daily, creating illegal no-fly zones, kicking down doors to homes, locking people up in prisons when they didn't do so much as jay walking, and then torturing them, searching the country, etc.

At no point has there ever been a legitimate or legal reason for an armed American soldier to be in Iraq.

09-07-2008, 12:42 AM	#1
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	It turns out you aren't the only Iraqi vet, and the majority are against the war in Iraq. I am also a vet and the MAJORITY of all combat vets, especially those who went to Iraq, are against the war in Iraq and the so-called "war on terror" because they know Al Queda had nothing to do with Iraq, that they aren't defending America by being in Iraq, and that the American government lied to the American people about Iraq posing a danger. Most vets, myself included, would die defending America if it were attacked, but would be furious at their government if it sent them into battle unnecessarily, illegally, and against a non-threat. Most would rather have their blood shed only when absolutely necessary and when it is in the defense of America. This is the very least America owes to American service men & women. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

09-07-2008, 11:35 AM	#3
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Radar This whole Iraqi vet claim of yours is new to me. Please elaborate on your "service there. When/why were you there? I'd have thought that would have made it to your bio - somewhere above the casino craps dealer certainly. I would bet my last dollar that a "Award Winning Libertarian Activist" (Your Quote - see profile) Would have certainly made a stand and refused to fight in this this this.... how did you put it? link oh yeah "illegal invasion of Iraq." __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

09-07-2008, 12:34 PM	#4
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I didn't say I was an Iraqi combat vet. I'm a vet, but not a combat vet, and I got out of the Navy just before the 1st gulf war. I said he's not the only Iraqi combat vet and that most Iraqi combat vets are against the war in Iraq. Pay attention to what I'm actually saying. You are correct in your assumption that I'd have enough honor, integrity, and courage to refuse the unlawful order to take part in an invasion of Iraq when they posed no danger to our own company and there was no formal declaration of war. Unlike those who went to Iraq, I actually took my oath seriously. For the record, anyone who claims Americans blatantly unconstitutional (aka illegal) invasion of Iraq by American soldiers from 1991 to the present is anything but completely illegal is a blithering idiot. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

09-07-2008, 08:55 PM	#6
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I'm straightforward, honest, and clear about everything I say. Perhaps you're having a tough time because you can't discern truth from propaganda. I always tell the truth. If you mistake anything I say for propaganda, it shows a problem with your perception, not with my message. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

09-08-2008, 05:35 PM	#7
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	Radar - I was checking on some things you said & I'm confused. Please help me to understand. "McCain got a D rating on Veterans issues from the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America. Barack Obama got a B+. Also the 10,000 IAVA were allowed to deliver a report to Barack Obama, but McCain turned them away". Where did you come up with the number 10,000? The IVAW states there were only 2 squads of 25 each that led a march of 10,000. This number also included Rage Against the Machine and Flobots. The so called report was a message calling for the "Immediate withdrawal, full veterans benefits, and reparations for the Iraqi people" (IVAW website). "The guy in your video represents a tiny minority of veterans. Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq." If we accept your total of 10,000 veterans being against the war, you must consider that is less than 0.7% of the app. 1.7 million troops who have served in OIF & OEF. Troop strengths are based upon reporting on the VoteVets, IVAW, and IAVA sites. Maybe you can help me to understand? Last edited by Big Sarge; 09-08-2008 at 06:51 PM.

09-07-2008, 08:45 AM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Two minutes at the Military Times site turned up this poll. For our fellow critical thinkers: Active duty poll, end of 07 (you would certainly expect more favorable numbers today): http://www.militarycity.com/polls/20...epoll_iraq.php 9) Should the U.S. have gone to war in Iraq? Yes 46.1% No 34.2% No opinion 10.9% Decline to answer 8.9%

09-07-2008, 09:16 PM	#8
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Your interpretation of "truth" is not the same as mine and that's ok with me. Your one vote means no more or less than mine - we are equal in that regard no matter how distasteful you find it. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

09-07-2008, 10:13 PM	#9
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	The mere fact that you think the truth is an "interpretation" proves that you don't know the meaning of the word "truth". But that's ok, most Republicans don't. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

09-07-2008, 10:29 PM	#10
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Radar's in fine form today. Those rapscallion republicans don't stand a chance.

09-07-2008, 11:14 PM	#11
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	How long have you been waiting to use the word "rapscallion" in a sentence? LOL __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

09-08-2008, 12:25 PM	#13
morethanpretty Thats "Miss Zipper Neck" to you. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: little town (but not the littlest) in texas Posts: 2,957	I have to say Big Sarge, I don't support the war in Iraq and I want it to be finished. I think its a mire and will be very difficult to minimize the damage to US/Islam relations (that were already horrible enough). Unfortunately, at this point, I believe limiting our military presence is the best option, and supporting the new country in other ways (generalization sorry). Not only is it a drain on our resources, the longer we stay the more of those people who welcomed our presence will begin to resent it. I supported taking Hussein out, and believe he deserved what he got, but I'm not sure we took the best path to do that. Perhaps we acted to rash out of our fear of attack. I will always support the troops. Just because I don't support a military action I feel was made based on lies and emotion, does not mean I don't love and support our people who are doing their best for our country. It is that same love and support that makes it my responsibility to try to bring them home. __________________ Addicts may suck dick for coke, but love came up with the idea to put a dick in there to begin with. -Jack O'Brien

09-08-2008, 05:38 PM	#14
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	MTP - it is not a mire. We have made significant success following the troop surge. Even Obama has admitted the troop surge was a success.

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