Where am I politically?

[Flint]

Originally Posted by yesman065

A more mature individual would understand, perhaps not agree with, but still understand there is a whole lot more than that one issue which constitutes a republican.

Not in a hard-line party system there isn't. You run with the pack or you get left in the dust. You can "feel" like there is more to it, but what actually counts is: what they do with your vote when they get in power.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by yesman065

It is not accurate to say that republican = "everyone following your version of morality."

Does that then mean Democrat="Everyone following your version of immorality?"

[Radar]

Personally, I don't see the relevance of your religion on your political views. They should remain entirely apart. If you are a "literalist Christian" as you claim, you should take the words of Jesus of Nazareth literally when he says judgment is reserved for god. Perhaps you should follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and keep your religion and politics completely separate and work to keep government out of church and church out of government.

If you are against abortion, you should not get one and don't exercise force to prevent others from getting them if they choose. Allow them to be judged by god. The same is true of prostitution, gay marriage, collecting stem cells, drug use, polygamy, etc.

These activities don't physically harm or endanger anyone other than potentially harming those taking part willingly in them. This means it's unreasonable to create a law against those things. After all, who are you or anyone else to force your own religious morality down the throats of others through legislation?

And make no mistake, force IS involved. If you do these things, men with guns show up and tell you to stop or they'll take away your freedom.

Clearly libertarianism is not for you, but you do seem to support some small government. This means the Republican and Democratic parties are also not for you. These parties are responsible for our moving so far away from the Constitution in the first place, and both grow government at faster and faster rates while violating our rights.

If anything, I'd say you fit into the Constitution/American Independent Party.

You should take a moment to check them out.

Here is their platform in PDF format.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/doc...CPPlatform.pdf

Or you can just visit their website...

http://www.constitutionparty.com

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by Radar

If you are against abortion, you should not get one and don't exercise force to prevent others from getting them if they choose. Allow them to be judged by god. The same is true of prostitution, gay marriage, collecting stem cells, drug use, polygamy, etc.

These activities don't physically harm or endanger anyone other than potentially harming those taking part willingly in them. This means it's unreasonable to create a law against those things.

The unborn child is murdered - I think thats "harming someone"?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by yesman065

The unborn child is murdered - I think thats "harming someone"?

No one thinks that they are killing anyone. It's just opinion on when the fetus actually becomes life.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

No one thinks that they are killing anyone. It's just opinion on when the fetus actually becomes life.

I think the important question is when life (under some minimal definition) becomes life worth protecting.

Now we can examine the assumption that life is somehow sacred!

Is it?

I think it's a good idea to treat it that way. But who can know if it's true? Nobody I know.

(Here I go again, breaking my personal rule about posting in the Politics/Current Events/Philosophy forums.)

[Toymented]

Originally Posted by grant

I think the important question is when life (under some minimal definition) becomes life worth protecting.

Now we can examine the assumption that life is somehow sacred!

Is it?

I think it's a good idea to treat it that way. But who can know if it's true? Nobody I know.

(Here I go again, breaking my personal rule about posting in the Politics/Current Events/Philosophy forums.)

It's a good indication that life is worth protecting and the particular life is sacred when the mother elects to advance the organism. Beyond that, why should anyone feel motivated to nurture that which is not desired by its own mother?

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by grant

(Here I go again, breaking my personal rule about posting in the Politics/Current Events/Philosophy forums.)

[Radar]

Originally Posted by yesman065

The unborn child is murdered - I think thats "harming someone"?

There are no "unborn children". Birth is a requirement in order to be a child. Before birth, you're merely a fetus.

Note: I'm saying this while my wife is pregnant with the fetus that she will hopefully allow become my child. Abortion is not murder. In fact the only human lives who have ever been lost due to abortion are those of women who got back alley abortions with rusty tools from butchers when one group tried to force their religious beliefs onto others by making abortions illegal.

We each have sole dominion over our body and all the organisms within that body. We alone choose life or death for any of those organisms regardless of what they are or how they got there. For all intents and purposes, we are the GOD of our body and our decisions are not to be questioned by any other person or group of people regardless of their number.

Let's not make this an abortion thread. She asked where her views were politically, and I told her. She has thanked me because I was correct and pointed her in the right direction based on her expressed beliefs.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Radar

Personally, I don't see the relevance of your religion on your political views. They should remain entirely apart. If you are a "literalist Christian" as you claim, you should take the words of Jesus of Nazareth literally when he says judgment is reserved for god.

Did I somehow imply that I don't?

Perhaps you should follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and keep your religion and politics completely separate and work to keep government out of church and church out of government.

Can you provide scripture references for this please?

If you are against abortion, you should not get one and don't exercise force to prevent others from getting them if they choose. Allow them to be judged by god. The same is true of prostitution, gay marriage, collecting stem cells, drug use, polygamy, etc.

..scroll up..

Originally Posted by onyxcougar

BUT I truly believe in free will, and (from a legal standpoint) I don't want to ban abortion or force my religious belief (or moral code) on people.

These activities don't physically harm or endanger anyone other than potentially harming those taking part willingly in them.

The unborn child didn't asked to be made, nor is it "willing" to be killed via acid, saw or knife. This is where my fundamental views and yours differ. (Nor do I wish to start an abortion debate here.)

This means it's unreasonable to create a law against those things. After all, who are you or anyone else to force your own religious morality down the throats of others through legislation?

"We the people" are the ones that make laws. Or, excuse me, that's how it's supposed to work. "We the people" DON'T make laws anymore, nor do our elected representatives vote on laws according to their constituency's majority view, nor does the Electoral College vote the way the people in their states do.

The majority view is supposed to be the prevailing view, and STATE legislation is supposed to support this.

And make no mistake, force IS involved. If you do these things, men with guns show up and tell you to stop or they'll take away your freedom.

Clearly libertarianism is not for you, but you do seem to support some small government. This means the Republican and Democratic parties are also not for you. These parties are responsible for our moving so far away from the Constitution in the first place, and both grow government at faster and faster rates while violating our rights.

I don't think Libertarianism is "not for me", I think that like the rest of the parties perviously discussed, there are some things I like, and fewer things I don't.

If anything, I'd say you fit into the Constitution/American Independent Party.

You should take a moment to check them out.

Here is their platform in PDF format.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/doc...CPPlatform.pdf

Or you can just visit their website...

http://www.constitutionparty.com

Thanks, I'll look into that.


edit: after reading in a few pages, I'm so far agreeing with most of this Contitution Party Platform. Thanks, radar!

Points of disagreement: that women connot be in combat.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

snip~
The majority view is supposed to be the prevailing view, and STATE legislation is supposed to support this. ~snip

No, no, no, no, no, absolutely no. That's what makes us, and U.S., different from every other country.
The Bill Of Rights was specifically written to prevent the "prevailing view" being passed into law and forced on people with a minority view. I'm allowed to worship square manhole covers. I'm allowed to not turn on the lights after dark(except in the car for safety). I'm allowed to be different.
Majority rules, may work with Robert's Rules of Order, but it's as unamerican as Borscht.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Can you provide scripture references for this please?

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/403a.htm

http://www.biblegateway.com

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

The unborn child didn't asked to be made, nor is it "willing" to be killed via acid, saw or knife. This is where my fundamental views and yours differ. (Nor do I wish to start an abortion debate here.)

There is no such thing as an unborn child anymore than their is an unbaked cake. It doesn't become a cake until it's baked. Before that it's just batter. You don't have a baby until it's born. Before that it's a fetus and a POTENTIAL baby just like the fetus inside my wife right now.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

"We the people" are the ones that make laws. Or, excuse me, that's how it's supposed to work. "We the people" DON'T make laws anymore, nor do our elected representatives vote on laws according to their constituency's majority view, nor does the Electoral College vote the way the people in their states do.

We the people do make the laws, and which laws we the people can make are limited. We the people don't have the authority to make any laws we wish over the lives of other people.

While the powers of government are derived from "We the people", those powers are limited by what powers we have as individuals to grant to that government. It's good to keep in mind that "We the people" are individuals, not a collective. We are each born with unalienable rights. For instance the right to defend ourselves when attacked. We are not born with the right to tell other people what foods they will or won't eat, what medicines or medical procedures they will or won't have, or what they can or can't do with their own body or property.

This means we can grant legitimate power to government to protect us, but we may not legitimately grant power to government to prevent or punish abortions, make drugs illegal, etc.

How can you give a power to government that you don't have as an individual? If you personally don't have such a power, neither do a million of you, or a hundred million of you.

If you were on an island of people without a government, you would have absolutely no legitimate right to prevent someone else on the island from getting an abortion. This means you can't grant this power to a government.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

The majority view is supposed to be the prevailing view, and STATE legislation is supposed to support this.

Majority rule is mob rule. Just because the majority wants something doesn't make it right. There are some things that are not up for a vote, and not up for a debate. The rights of a single person are more important than the desires of millions.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't think Libertarianism is "not for me", I think that like the rest of the parties perviously discussed, there are some things I like, and fewer things I don't.

Trust me, libertarianism is not for you.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Thanks, I'll look into that.


edit: after reading in a few pages, I'm so far agreeing with most of this Contitution Party Platform. Thanks, radar!

Points of disagreement: that women connot be in combat.

I figured you'd fit like a glove. If that's the only area you've found where you disagree, I'd say this is the party for you.

[wolf]

Welcome back, Onyx! If you really want to know where you stand politically, why not try the infamous Political Compass test ... It's actually a fairly good measure of where you stand.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by wolf

Welcome back, Onyx! If you really want to know where you stand politically, why not try the infamous Political Compass test ... It's actually a fairly good measure of where you stand.

Agreed, their are many versions of it as well.

[Spexxvet]

He won't 'cause he's a poopy head.