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Old 09-29-2006, 12:50 PM   #1
Flint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
You can't make up a random label that didn't exist in the 1700s and then say that the Constitution doesn't mention it.
If it was intended to be in the Consitution, his () noodley appendage would make it so. Ramen.
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Old 09-29-2006, 02:21 PM   #2
MaggieL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Is an "unlawful alien enemy combatant" a person? If so, they get due process. You can't make up a random label that didn't exist in the 1700s and then say that the Constitution doesn't mention it.
Funny, that's the argument the Dems use for gun control. But never mind that...

It's not a random label; it's the definition in the law. But I didn't say the citation (which you didn't supply) had to mention "unlawful alien enemy combatant", only that it had to apply to them.

Were you perhaps thinking of Amendment V?

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Constitution
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger...
If you're going to present your interpretation of the Constitution, please cite the part you are interpreting.
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Last edited by MaggieL; 09-29-2006 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieL
Funny, that's the argument the Dems use for gun control. But never mind that...

It's not a random label; it's the definition in the law. But I didn't say the citation (which you didn't supply) had to mention "unlawful alien enemy combatant", only that it had to apply to them.

Were you perhaps thinking of Amendment V?
So does that mean that in "times of public danger" a US soldier can walk around shooting civilians with impunity? If so, why was Lt. Calley ever charged in the first place for his actions at the Mai Li massacre? The 5th Amendment does not give the military carte blanche to act like Nazi Storm Troopers. It just means that if a soldier kills or wounds an enemy soldier in time of war, he won't stand trial for murder.

By the way, the 6th Amendment begins "In all criminal prosecutions..." It doesn't say except for prosecutions of unlawful alien combatants. Even the Nazi high command was allowed to stand trial, and they weren't tortured, either.

The US is now, in effect, playing by two sets of rules - one for us and another for everyone else. Where's the integrity in THAT? Its like saying "Thou shall not kill" means you can't kill me, but its fine for me to kill you.

The Declaration of Independence states that ALL men are created equal and have certain inalienable rights. It doesn't say only US citizens are created equal. It says ALL MEN.

You endorse shredding the Bill of Rights to fragments, breaking a solemn treaty made with the WORLD, and the torture of human beings. If that's what America has come to, then I will no longer call myself an American.
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Old 09-29-2006, 06:02 PM   #4
Happy Monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieL
It's not a random label; it's the definition in the law.
What law?
Quote:
Were you perhaps thinking of Amendment V?

If you're going to present your interpretation of the Constitution, please cite the part you are interpreting.
Since I used the term "due process", I was obviously referring to the part of the Fifth Amendment that is not modified by the "war or public danger" clause, which only applies to grand jury indictments for serving members of the US military.
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Old 09-28-2006, 12:13 PM   #5
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Stormie, they aren't military tribunals...they're a thrid system of justice that is being spontaneously created. The entire bill is probably un-Constitutional, but there are definitely provisions therein that DEFINITELY are. For example, you can't retroactively pardon someone for violating the War Crimes Act. Nor can you suspend the Writ of Habeus Corpus, which this also tries to do.
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Old 09-28-2006, 12:16 PM   #6
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...but...they have to do this...in order to...protect freedom ???
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 09-28-2006, 12:51 PM   #7
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They have to do this to protect themselves. A while back I read an excellent paper by a high ranking Canadian military officer. He wrote that under the Geneva Convention, military officers and even Jr., himself, could be subjected to a trial before an international tribunal - something like the Nuremberg trials of high ranking Nazi officials. This is about writing a "get out of jail free" card, as it is anything else.

Just when you think it can't get any worse...

Why doesn't Jr. just abolish the entire Bill of Rights and be done with it?
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Old 09-28-2006, 06:45 PM   #8
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America: "oooohhhh... look at meeee... I'm an eeeevvvvilllll empire *prances around on the bones of the oppressed*"
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkzenrage
America: "oooohhhh... look at meeee... I'm an eeeevvvvilllll empire *prances around on the bones of the oppressed*"
You support the suspension of Habeus Corpus?
And making fun of it doesn't make it any less important. Yes, it's for people who are 'enemy combatants.' But who defines 'enemy combatants'? And hasn't the GOP been saying that Democrats are "giving aid and comfort" to the terrorists?
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:06 PM   #10
Happy Monkey
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Here are the 65 subverters of the US Constitution in the US Senate.

Torture and permanent imprisonment without trial will be legal.
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:48 PM   #11
Flint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Torture and permanent imprisonment without trial will be legal.
Yes...but...that's only so we can protect freedom! :::eyes you suspiciously:::
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
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expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 09-28-2006, 08:13 PM   #12
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that freedom being the freedom to lock up those who disagree with us?
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Old 09-28-2006, 08:27 PM   #13
MaggieL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMcGee
that freedom being the freedom to lock up those who disagree with us?
Who's this "us"? Got a mouse in your pocket?
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Old 09-28-2006, 08:32 PM   #14
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US
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Old 09-28-2006, 08:36 PM   #15
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so......


what's a lawful alien enemy combatant?

and can you lock up an unlawful alien friendly combatant?
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