Emergence of humanity

[jinx]

Originally Posted by wolf

I went for first genetically unique cell. And yes, tw, I think that abortion clinics are killing children ... the problem I have with abortion is not that it is done, but that the process is cloaked in all kinds of semantic nonsense about fetus, not baby, tissue, not clump of actual living cells, etc. etc. The marketing of abortion is what I abhor. Understand what you are really doing, and make you choices based on that.

But the same medical terminology is used (by the doctors anyway) when you plan to keep the baby.

edit: I don't have an answer to the question.... I don't think it matters.

[bluecuracao]

I am not in the scientific or medical field, but for some reason, it makes the most sense to me that the first genetically unique cell is a precursor to human life. I don't believe that it is full-on human life. As for the actual question, when do I believe human life begins...I don't know.

[Griff]

I'm pretty much in lock-step with wolf. Don't pretend you're doing something less than you're doing. We can honestly disagree on its morality just don't make me complicit in your choice by having me fund it. Yes, I'll extend this argument to stem cell research.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by wolf

Understand what you are really doing, and make you choices based on that.

That's exactly what my wife says about eating meat. IE, there is no "death element" at McDonalds.

[Happy Monkey]

wolf - tw didn't say abortion clinics.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Driver's license.

[Ibby]

I agree with everyone that said as soon as it can think/survive outside the mother's body.

[9th Engineer]

Now lets shift the direction slightly. Based on what's been said so far about when a human's life begins, do the rights afforded to people apply to what will become human? The buying and selling of fertilized eggs/fetus's/zygots is a good starting point.

[bbro]

Originally Posted by Ibram

I agree with everyone that said as soon as it can think/survive outside the mother's body.

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

In support of this, I would point out that I've never heard of a funeral for a miscarried fetus. It is NOT treated the same as a human child.

I don't really want to get too involved, but I had to comment on both of these statements which are complete and utter bullshit. There are many women that I know that were heartbroken when they had miscarriages and still consider them children. They felt and had services just the same as if a 5 month old would die. They are treated the same as a human child because to them (and me), it IS a human child.

Originally Posted by Labrat

Originally Posted by Flint
I interact with my child, who won't be born for about another month.


I did this with my daughter. Toward the end of my pregnancy, we would tap on my belly, and she would kick out at us. It was a riot!!

My brother and sister in law are going through this. Whenever he laughs, the baby kicks, making him laugh, making the baby kick, etc etc. Needless to say, I don't know how funny my sister in law thinks this is.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by bbro

I don't really want to get too involved, but I had to comment on both of these statements which are complete and utter bullshit. There are many women that I know that were heartbroken when they had miscarriages and still consider them children. They felt and had services just the same as if a 5 month old would die. They are treated the same as a human child because to them (and me), it IS a human child.

That's your experience. My experience is different, not bullshit any more than yours is.
I didn't say people weren't upset. I said they don't have funerals.

[bbro]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

That's your experience. My experience is different, not bullshit any more than yours is.
I didn't say people weren't upset. I said they don't have funerals.

Lots of people have funerals, they just aren't talked about because people don't like talking about miscarriages. After it happens, people that it didn't affect (and sometimes, sadly, people it did) don't acknowledge that the woman was ever pregnant, had a child, or had a traumatic event happen in their life.

I am sorry if I offended you, I probably shouldn't have used the word bullshit, but I have seen many women struggling with loss and with people treating their child like it wasn't human and doesn't deserve to be remembered or to have a funeral.

[Undertoad]

Now lets shift the direction slightly.

Well that won't work, because you've brought up the root question of all arguments on the Internet.

[jaguar]

I'd say viability & at the same time, I agree with wolf, call a spade a spade. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be perfectly legal. Stem cell research is however a whole different kettle of fish, it's a bunch of goddamn cells for crying out loud.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by jaguar

I'd say viability & at the same time, I agree with wolf, call a spade a spade.

The terminology wasn't invented by abortionists, it's used thoughout biology. And even in colloquial use - maybe not those particular words - there is a difference. If a woman trying to become pregnant has a period after having sex, she doesn't say "our baby died", she says "we're not going to have a baby".

[Undertoad]

Roughly two-thirds of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.

So if we use this new "correct" terminology, there are more babies at the wastewater treatment plant than at the hospital.

Huh. Could it be, something about this terminology seems a little emotionally loaded.