Egypt and Arab States circle toilet bowl

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Like Iraq?

Lets look at Iraq and the conditions I suggested.

There must be a popular uprising.
I agree that such an uprising existed in 1991 at our urging and we hung them out to dry. Shameful.

In 2003, there was no popular uprising along the lines of what have seen in other Arab counties over the last few months.

There must be a significant and deadly threat to that uprising from military forces against that uprising.
The greatest massacres of the Iraqi people occured in the 80s (gassing of the Kurds) through 91, with the US administrations at the time providing arms to Saddam, not in the prelude to the 2003 invasion.

The subsequent No-Fly Zone in the early 90s prevented any deadly use of military force in the north at the time of the US invasion in 2003 and the Kurds had autonomy for the first time ever.While there certainly was actions by Saddam's secret police in the south, there was no broad use of the military because his military was decimated.

The intervention must be limited (and I would add) have a UN mandate.
Certainly not the case with the invasion and occupation of Iraq for which there was no UN mandate.

It must have the support, at least at some level, of neighboring countries and the Arab world.
The Arab League opposed the US invasion, as did the other major Muslim countries - Pakistan, Indonesia, etc.

There were protests against the US invasion in major cities throughout the Arab world.

Not one of thse conditions fit the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Lets look at Iraq and the conditions I suggested.

There must be a popular uprising.
I agree that such an uprising existed in 1991 and we hung them out to dry. In 2003, there was no popular uprising along the lines of what have seen in other Arab counties over the last few months.

Yea, I think they got the message the last time that the US was not going to be there for them.

There must be a significant and deadly threat to that uprising from military forces against that uprising.

Yea, I am sure that Saddam would have welcomed them with open arms after their previous experiences.

The subsequent No-Fly Zone prevented any deadly use of military force in the north at the time of the US invasion in 2003. While there certainly was actions by Saddam's secret police in the south, there was no broad use of the military because his military was decimated.

False. Many US and coalition troops lost their lives or were injured on the drive to Iraq.

The intervention must be limited (and I would add) have a UN mandate.

AGAIN, current estimates say 90 days with an open-ended option to extend indefinitely. Bosnia was to be limited and we were there for over 2 years.

Certainly not the case with the invasion and occupation of Iraq for which there was no UN mandate.

You are right, only 10 years of inept action and failed compliance with the UN mandates.

It must have the support, at least at some level, of neighboring countries and the Arab world.

We had that in Iraq. Maybe you forgot the list of Arab nations that supported us...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...vasion_of_Iraq

There were protests against the US invasion in major cities throughout the Arab world.

All the while in the background they were supporting us in material and intel methods.

Not one of thse conditions fit the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Obvious bullshit, as I have pointed out.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

It must have the support, at least at some level, of neighboring countries and the Arab world.

These conditions fit the circumstances in Libya and only Libya

O
I
L

Neighboring countries? How about a little pressure from our European friends who get some from there?

I watched an interview on CNN last night with a couple "experts" - Months wasn't even long enough to train these people how to use the weapons and be adept/unified enough to tactically make a real offense move against the cities still held by Quackdaddy.

The longer he keeps this together, the worse it looks for the rebels.
I will give the administration this - they weren't stupid enough to call them freedom fighters.

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by classicman

O
I
L

Neighboring countries? How about a little pressure from our European friends who get some from there?

I dont dispute that our chicken hawk allies in NATO should do more.

Today, command of control of the No Fly Zone is a NATO operation. The naval blockade, with ships from 10-15 NATO allies including Turkey, is under NATO command and control

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

I dont dispute that our chicken hawk allies in NATO should do more.

Today, command of control of the No Fly Zone is a NATO operation. The naval blockade, with ships from 10-15 NATO allies including Turkey, is under NATO command and control

How many ships has Turkey provided? What is the strength of their naval power? How many airplanes has Qutar contributed? What is the effect of their contribution?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

One other question I ask openly is why a Libyan life is worth more than those in so many other countries?

Because the UN said so.

[Fair&Balanced]

Never mind.

You just want to keep talking around my points with a revisionist history, at least IMO.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Never mind.

You just want to keep talking around my points with a revisionist history, at least IMO.

Weak.

[TheMercenary]

No boots on the ground, but very close by, just in case.....

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...cal&id=8039326

[TheMercenary]

Rut Ro....

'Al-Qaeda snatched missiles' in Libya


http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...#ixzz1Hffm5oRa

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Rut Ro....

'Al-Qaeda snatched missiles' in Libya

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...#ixzz1Hffm5oRa

Chad, like many of Libya's African neighbors kowtow to Ghadaffi, their sugar daddy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1915484/

Chad, Sudan, etc. are also providing fighters under the direction of Ghaddafi's sons since he is apparently not all that confident that he has or will maintain the support of his own military.

Chad claiming that AlQaeda snatched missiles is much like Ghaddafi claiming that the rebels are Al Qaeda.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Chad, like many of Libya's African neighbors kowtow to Ghadaffi, their sugar daddy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1915484/

Chad, Sudan, etc. are also providing fighters under the direction of Ghaddafi's sons since he is apparently not all that confident that he has or will maintain the support of his own military.

Chad claiming that AlQaeda snatched missiles is much like Ghaddafi claiming that the rebels are Al Qaeda.

Who cares. I posted the news. There is enough stirring of this subject for us to be concerned. Esp since all the critics of Bush were not about his success in taking down a country in 2 weeks, but the aftermath, where a vacuum occurred and there is no evidence that it will be any different in Libya. Another Big Fail for Obama.

[TheMercenary]

Our new Cowboy in the White House has declared war on Libya. One can just imagine the headlines in the New York Times if George Bush were to have taken the action he did. Dare we remember the outrage from the left even when the UN passed the necessary resolutions on Iraq, today the left still squawk about how Bush lied about going to war? The hypocrisy of the left on this war in Libya is so breathtaking that anybody who calls themselves a moderate Democrat if one exists, or an independent, should be having serious doubts about the ideology of liberalism or the total game of political expediency they use. When Republicans “lie” the same policies of the left are that of “courage and fortitude.”

Continues:

http://bigpeace.com/kdavies/2011/03/...e-i-am-for-it/

[Fair&Balanced]

Ghadaffi's support is crumbling around him, with the exception of his sons and "40 Listicked Virgins"

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/23/mo...ec1_lnk3|51358

The growing defections among his closest political supporters (some of whom are running for their lives to the West, if they can escape) and possibly his military are positive developments.

With that I bid you a good night.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Ghadaffi's support is crumbling around him, with the exception of his sons and "40 Listicked Virgins"

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/23/mo...ec1_lnk3|51358

The growing defections among his closest political supporters (some of whom are running for their lives to the West, if they can escape) and possibly his military are positive developments.

With that I bid you a good night.

None of that addresses the issues. Who is going to take the place of the current government? Who is poised to fill the void? The Muslim Brotherhood? AQ? Who?