No House resolution honoring SEAL's bin Laden mission - Page 17

Fair&Balanced · 05-21-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

Except that NO confirmed data has been reported that supports that assertion, and MANY statements have been made by THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE that indicate that waterboarding and other forms of enhanced interrogation had NOTHING to do with the operation.

Right.

The evidence is much more compelling that it was the result of putting more CIA assets in the field in Afghanistan and Pakistan several years ago and then NSA's intercept of e-mails and phone calls, based on what those assets found or heard.

Ibby · 05-21-2011, 07:09 PM

And almost all reputable primary-source accounts not from Republican candidates for office state unequivocally that not only was "enhanced interrogation" not a significant factor, and not only did tortured prisoners actually give misleading and utterly unhelpful testimony, but in fact all the prisoner-derived intel helpful to the case was either accidentally gained (that is to say, the prisoner let slip information without intending to let it slip) or given by detainees NOT subject to "enhanced" techniques or torture.

I'm not entirely willing to say that I don't think there is a time or a place for the more "mild" forms of torture - of course if one wants to make WHAT IF THE TERRORIST KNOWS WHERE THE BOMB IS AND ITS THE ONLY WAY arguments, then i grudgingly support SOME forms of "enhanced interrogation" - but I also firmly believe that in almost all cases, intelligence gained through torture is dubious at best, and even more so, that rule of law should be supreme.
If the US is to honestly act on "enhanced interrogation" techniques regarded under the Geneva Convention as torture, then I believe that the US should disengage itself from the Geneva Convention and any other international treaties that ban the actions taken.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-22-2011, 09:06 PM

They discovered the nickname of Bin Laden's body guard/primary courier at Guantanamo. It was a long complicated investigation from there.

TheMercenary · 05-22-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhianne

Ten years, thousands of lives, billions (trillions?) of dollars but in the end they did find Osama.

In his house.

It wasn't really him. It was a look alike surrounded by whores.

DanaC · 05-23-2011, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They discovered the nickname of Bin Laden's body guard/primary courier at Guantanamo. It was a long complicated investigation from there.

I don't think anyody is denying that the prisoners at Guantanemo were the source of intelligence. It's whether that intelligence was the result of enhanced or standard interrogation techniques that is being questioned. From the reports I have read it would appear that the information was the result of standard techniques.

Griff · 05-23-2011, 05:33 AM

Looks like the birthers are deathers now?

DanaC · 05-24-2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

Looks like the birthers are deathers now?

I may be being totally dense, but I don't get this:p

glatt · 05-24-2011, 07:36 AM

They wanted proof that Obama was born
now they want proof that Osama has died

Fair&Balanced · 05-24-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

They wanted proof that Obama was born
now they want proof that Osama has died

One out of three conservative Republicans still believe Obama is a Muslim.

DanaC · 05-25-2011, 05:08 AM

@ Griff: ahh thanks. yes that makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

One out of three conservative Republicans still believe Obama is a Muslim.

Seriously? That's pretty frightening.

Fair&Balanced · 05-25-2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

@ Griff: ahh thanks. yes that makes sense.

Seriously? That's pretty frightening.

A Pew poll from last year. The number is probably higher today, given how Obama evidently "butt fucked"

Israel in his recent speech, according to those same Republican conservatives.

http://pewforum.org/Politics-and-Ele...-a-Muslim.aspx

Those who dont like him or trust him accept what they want to believe, particularly when it is indirectly reinforced by the talking heads and even Republican members of Congress.

Rhianne · 05-25-2011, 09:15 AM

I'm not sure if that's amusing or scary. It only lists Christians and "unaffiliated", are there any polls on the opinions of Muslims?

Spexxvet · 05-25-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhianne

I'm not sure if that's amusing or scary. It only lists Christians and "unaffiliated", are there any polls on the opinions of Muslims?

Or Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, Shintoists, Pagans, Athiests, Jainists, etc.?

Fair&Balanced · 05-25-2011, 10:00 AM

The actual poll question was:
Now, thinking about Barack Obama’s religious beliefs… Do you happen to know what Barack Obama’s religion is? Is he Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, agnostic, or something else?

classicman · 05-25-2011, 11:13 AM

That is frightening. Then again,

Quote:

Among Democrats, for instance, 46% say Obama is a Christian, down from 55% in March 2009.

Only half of the D's think he is Christian. WTF?

05-21-2011, 07:09 PM	#242
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	And almost all reputable primary-source accounts not from Republican candidates for office state unequivocally that not only was "enhanced interrogation" not a significant factor, and not only did tortured prisoners actually give misleading and utterly unhelpful testimony, but in fact all the prisoner-derived intel helpful to the case was either accidentally gained (that is to say, the prisoner let slip information without intending to let it slip) or given by detainees NOT subject to "enhanced" techniques or torture. I'm not entirely willing to say that I don't think there is a time or a place for the more "mild" forms of torture - of course if one wants to make WHAT IF THE TERRORIST KNOWS WHERE THE BOMB IS AND ITS THE ONLY WAY arguments, then i grudgingly support SOME forms of "enhanced interrogation" - but I also firmly believe that in almost all cases, intelligence gained through torture is dubious at best, and even more so, that rule of law should be supreme. If the US is to honestly act on "enhanced interrogation" techniques regarded under the Geneva Convention as torture, then I believe that the US should disengage itself from the Geneva Convention and any other international treaties that ban the actions taken. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

05-22-2011, 09:06 PM	#243
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They discovered the nickname of Bin Laden's body guard/primary courier at Guantanamo. It was a long complicated investigation from there. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-23-2011, 05:33 AM	#246
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Looks like the birthers are deathers now? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

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05-24-2011, 07:36 AM	#248
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	They wanted proof that Obama was born now they want proof that Osama has died

05-25-2011, 09:15 AM	#252
Rhianne Nearly done. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Teetering on the edge. Posts: 1,134	I'm not sure if that's amusing or scary. It only lists Christians and "unaffiliated", are there any polls on the opinions of Muslims?

05-25-2011, 10:00 AM	#254
Fair&Balanced Operations Operative Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 495	The actual poll question was: Now, thinking about Barack Obama’s religious beliefs… Do you happen to know what Barack Obama’s religion is? Is he Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, agnostic, or something else?

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