Quake/Tsunami

[BigV]

Is that a Yo Mama joke?

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

You can't put too much woman in a nuclear reactor.

That only works with breeder reactors.



I'll be here with a half-life of 12 days, try the boron.

[monster]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

try the boron.

tw? That's not nice!


(I find her guilty)

[glatt]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

You can't put too much woman in a nuclear reactor.

[tw]

NHK, two years later, continues exposing unreported facts about Fukishima. Latest revelations come from research performed by NHK by 'secretly' obtaining engineering documents.

First, nuclear power plants have passive cooling systems (called isolation condensers) that permit a plant to cool itself passively. No electricity required. But, for reasons that remain unknown and undiscussed, those passive cooling systems were not operational. And those systems had never been tested in 40 years.

Since the system had never been tested, then no one knew what a working cooling system looks like. Management 'assumed' a trace amount of steam meant it was working. When passive cooling works, the noise is quite loud. Steam fills the sky all around the plant. Trace amounts of steam, assumed to be a working cooling system, meant a complete failure.

In both company and an independent investigations, no mention of these passive cooling systems. And yet that alone could have averted the nuclear meltdown in Fukishima Daiche One that occurred within 24 hours. (A meltdown that the company denied for weeks even though it was obvious even to layman in days.)

To keep water in Fukishima 3, fire engines were connected to pump 400 tons of water into the reactor. Operators knew water was leaking elsewhere. And again, company investigations ignore this. So again, NHK did independent investigations. Discovered the leak and why it occurred. Explained why so much water was discovered later in condensors.

A pump, operating not as designed, had leaked 55% of the incoming water, through a tiny 1.5 inch pipe, into the condensors. NHK recorded an Italian laboratory duplicating this failure. Had only 25% of the water leaked, then Fukishima 3 could have been saved. Another fact somehow lost in TEPCO's investigations and another by the government. Another in a long list of facts that NHK discovered 'overlooked' by TEPCO and government investigations.

In the US, identical plants (ie 9 Mile Island) test their passive cooling systems every four years. Have obtained mobile pumps and installed dedicated pipes so that external cooling can be performed directly. These potential weaknesses are not unique to Fukishima. But NHK is demonstrating a serious problem with honesty at the higher levels of TEPCO management. And questionable investigations by Japanese Nuclear Regulators. 85% of all problems ...

Shocking were comments by top TEPCO people who accuse TEPCO employees of having insufficient knowledge of basic concepts. Anyone with any industrial or military experience knows that attitude and knowledge must come from top management. Can management actually blame employees for what is obvious a major management created disaster? Apparently that still is their attitude.

This NHK report is the third in a series exposing lack of clarity or intentionally convoluted reports from TEPCO (whose management created the Fukishima disaster) and from government regulators.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Do you mean 3 mile island, or 9 mile point?

[Griff]

The speedway?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Nine mile point is in Oswego, on lake Ontario, one of GE's first generation BWR designs.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by tw

... But NHK is demonstrating a serious problem with honesty at the higher levels of TEPCO management...

That's so surprising given the Japanese government's reputation for transparency, candidness, and lack of guile.

[tw]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

That's so surprising given the Japanese government's reputation for transparency, candidness, and lack of guile.

That may be a Japanese attitude. But that clearly was not TEPCO management's attitude. Problems were apparent and discussed here especially on and after 14 March 2011. The Japanese Prime Minster personally stormed into TEPCO headquarters to personally order them to not abandon those plants. After a meltdown was even obvious here, weeks later, TEPCO finally admitted to those meltdowns.

Read that at least one potential Three Mile Island situation had started on 12 Mar 2011 (day after the quake). By 14 Mar, a meltdown was apparent.

In hindsight, Reactor One had already exposed and melted its core when Fukishima Three and Two were following - as discussed here:
Quake/Tsunami

NHK makes government nuclear regulators also look evasive and misleading.

Nine Mile Point (only Unit One) and Fukishima Daichi were similar designs constructed about the same time. Its not the designs that are a problem. Fukishima had a management problem as posts after 11 Mar 2011 demonstrate. NHK's documentaries also demonstrate.

Mismanagement was also the reason for Three Mile Island. A disaster averted only because Pres Carter ordered Denton to discover what was happening. Denton discovered that GPU mismanagement was so gross as to personally take ownership of that plant - without authorization.

People are quick to blame the plant(s) rather than reasons why a problem turns into a major disaster.

[ZenGum]

FFF, you forgot to use these.

[sarcasm] [/sarcasm]

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Nine Mile Point (only Unit One) and Fukishima Daichi were similar designs constructed about the same time. Its not the designs that are a problem.

That's debatable, while the Boiling Water Reactor design has been operating for some time without many major incidents, I still feel the more expensive Pressurized Water Reactor is a much safer design. The PWR design provides less opportunity for the management to create problems, and makes their 85% smaller in number.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

FFF, you forgot to use these.

I did "air quotes" but I guess no one saw them.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The PWR design provides less opportunity for the management to create problems, and makes their 85% smaller in number.

That's a concept for all technologies. The idea is to constantly innovate. Learn from experience. Even upgrade first generation plants (PWR or BWR) so that problems require less assumptions and less management decisions.

One need only view the automobile. As it becomes more complex, knowledge, decisions, and actions performed by a driver to keep a car running have become massively less. A driver no longer adjusts spark plug timing.

Nine Mile Point plant has been modified so that external pumps can be connected directly to a reactor from outside. A modification made because they learned from Fukishima. Similar to a standpipe for every commercial building. So that portable pumps (ie fire truck) can connect water directly inside the building (or reactor) without any planning or attachments.

In the case of reactor 3, nobody knew a small pump's check valve would remain open. Reactor 3 needed at least 300 tons of water to avert a meltdown. It only got maybe 180 tons of the 400 pumped in. Due to complexity (and other factors such as no lights and high radioactivity), operators could not know of their mistake.

If top management does up front planning, then unforseen problems do not become disasters. If top management had tested passive cooling (as management does in Nine Mile Point every four years), then a Reactior 1 meltdown (on 12 Mar 2011) probably would have been averted. And management would not have erroneously assumed (and told operators) that two passive cooling systems were working.

Primary purpose of a third generation nuclear reactor is to make the system even more fool proof. To make mistakes even less likely. Mistakes will always happen. Unfortunately, top management must understand the number one reason why a most fool proof plant still creates a disaster: top management.

How does any system get fixed when management obfuscates facts? Exactly why informed (and therefore patriotic) citizens listen and learn from the news. Those on 15 Mar 2011 who still believed TEPCO myths must learn from their mistakes. Learn why they were so easily deceived by spin and lies when facts that clearly indicated meltdowns had occurred.

Read this discussion back then. Each reader should ask whether they saw the facts or were easily deceived back then.

Japan should learn, from their NHK reports, of ongoing obfuscation or coverups. Every American should also learn whether their knowledge and information came from responsible sources.

Goes right back to Saddam's WMDs. Notice how few bothered to stand up for the American soldier. How few tried to protect lives of American servicemen by identifying spin or outright lies from George Jr's administration. Almost 5000 died because so many Americans did not do their job as citizens. Unfortunately too many still did not learn from history. Did not learn what is necessary for any layman to have informed knowledge. Did not learn both who and why is the source of most disasters.

Fukishima is another event in history so that everyone can learn how reality works and how to avert future failures.

BTW, probably not obvious. This also addresses another topic about socialism vs communism vs capitalism.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Hey, no problem, spring is in the air, the flowers in bloom, and the Fukushimi daisies are growing.