Times are tough all over

[Shawnee123]

I got short-timers, man. Actually, I have for quite some time.

Besides, what are YOU doing on the interwebz...you're supposed to be over here biting my ass! :p

[xoxoxoBruce]

No. no biting, nibbling.

[Shawnee123]

At that rate, it'll take years to finish.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Sorry if I don't believe you...

What don't you believe, that the productive taxpayers are the ones who pay for those programs? Where does the money come from then?

[xoxoxoBruce]

If you got the booty, honey, I got the time.

[Pico and ME]

Im confused....my husband makes just over 60,000 grand and we never see negative taxes. Are we doing something wrong????

[smoothmoniker]

Originally Posted by classicman

ME! Therein lies the problem - no matter who gets elected, I am the one paying for their promises. As a hardworking and productive member of society, I get to pay for the promises these guys make.

Ditto. I make in the mid-high 100k range, and because most of it is self-employed income, my annual tax nut is around 40k.

Yes, I know that I play music and I'm not out laying concrete or picking produce, but if anyone thinks you get to that level of income in the music industry without working your ASS off, I'd invite you to ride along with me for a week or two.

Every gig, every session, every arrangement or orchestration I write, every week on the road touring, every class I teach, it's all time spent away from my family and kids. When I drop into bed exhausted at 3am, and hustle out the door at 8am, that's a real cost to me and my family.

I'm not complaining, I'm glad to do it and I'm blessed to be able to do it. But I get viciously angry when people assume that once people have reached some arbitrary income point, they are no longer "earning it", and therefore its perfectly fine to take away their income to redistribute it elsewhere.

I pay a metric assload of taxes, and I pay it out of money that I earn, and because there's no withholding on my paychecks, I'm the one who actually writes the check to the IRS and feels the kick in the balls every time.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

If you're paying 60,000 in taxes, you must be a CEO of a bank or something.

Total. Tax. Liability.

Not a CEO. But I do work 5 jobs, one as an employee and the other four as a independent contractor, working for myself.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Didn't have it for most of the time that was happening. Now my income is >.< that much over the limit.


Absolutely correct - That is Merc's point almost verbatim.


OK lets do it this way then - Will "those people" then get MORE of my hard earned money under Obama's plan? Fuck that - I worked for it I earned it - I WANT IT.

Pico - Yes I took the food stamps as they were the only thing I qualified for. I could have gotten a heck of a lot more if I CHOSE not to work. I actually grossed less by working more and moving toward being self reliant and independent. Many - too many choose not to do so.

What he said. Verbatim.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes, but that's becoming unamerican.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Im confused....my husband makes just over 60,000 grand and we never see negative taxes. Are we doing something wrong????

No. The system is broken. If you make squat, you actually make money on the tax system. The harder you work, the more you pay, and the bigger the bite the system (gov) takes. That is the problem with a tiered system. If we all pay the same percent, flat tax, and do away with the deductions then the playing field would be leveled. If you make 20k a year you pay x% if you make 400k, you pay the same x%. That would be fair.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Im confused....my husband makes just over $60,000 grand and we never see negative taxes. Are we doing something wrong????

Yes, you aren't cheating the system.

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

Ditto. I make in the mid-high 100k range, and because most of it is self-employed income, my annual tax nut is around 40k.
I get viciously angry when people assume that once people have reached some arbitrary income point, they are no longer "earning it", and therefore its perfectly fine to take away their income to redistribute it elsewhere.

I pay a metric assload of taxes, and I pay it out of money that I earn, and because there's no withholding on my paychecks, I'm the one who actually writes the check to the IRS and feels the kick in the balls every time.

Exactly - oh and you pay the full boat too, correct? No employer contribution right?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

No. The system is broken. If you make squat, you actually make money on the tax system. The harder you work, the more you pay, and the bigger the bite the system (gov) takes. That is the problem with a tiered system. If we all pay the same percent, flat tax, and do away with the deductions then the playing field would be leveled. If you make 20k a year you pay x% if you make 400k, you pay the same x%. That would be fair.

That would eliminate so much bullshit too. It would avoid all the confusion the ambiguity ...all of it. I see no reason not to have a flat tax. I would alter the basement though. Tax liability starting at something way more than $20,000 but thats just me.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Child support should come from the penis that supplied the sperm, not form the state that had nothing to do with the sexual act.

Yes it should. Agreed. But daddy is in jail on drug charges so maybe it's impossible, because daddy is a dumb ass. Kids should not suffer because of the actions of their parents. So uh would you like for them to starve and get no healthcare or education, is this what you are suggesting? Not that this isn't happening or anything. Hey let's turn into Africa and have non profits come in to spread christianity and food with no sustainable plan for the future. That sounds fantastic.

What is your plan again?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by classicman

Without going into my personal circumstances too much...
I know I couldn't - I tried. Caring for a family of 5 on that is impossible. So I got a 2nd job and a third job and put myself through college so that I could independently provide better for my family. I did what was necessary to generate more money.
I received food stamps and using them made me sick every time - The stigma THAT I FELT taking a handout was a great motivating factor for me.

I really admire you classic, that can't have been easy. I think it is enormously to your credit that your rose to the challenge and didn't drown. But, consider this: with society stepping in to help carry some of that burden, maybe you wouldn't have had to work three jobs and would have had more time to spend with the family you were working so hard to raise. Why not? If the children you were raising grow up to be strong and well educated, proud and loving, responsible and courageous, do you not think that society will reap the benefit of that?

Let society, the wider community, take some of the burden when raising a family becomes an almost insurmountable task. The good that your children might do in the world, could extend far beyond their front lawn. Why should parents, working hard to bring about the nation's most precious and valuable asset, be left stranded high and dry, humiliated in front of their kids with voucher-based charity, or separating themselves from ther children for much of their waking lives?

The fierce independence of the American way is wonderful. That people take such strong responsiblity for themselves and their families is a worthy and admirable thing. But there is a price.

[classicman]

Dana, More than once my children have not quit on doing something or have taken on more than they should have and yet they still achieved success. They never quit. When I have asked them why...they remind me of what I did when they were younger. They learned BY EXAMPLE. There is no substitute for that.

The price - yes a costly one for me... the reward - priceless.