Congress has lost its mind...

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Sure they are. It has never been about what they are telling us. It is what we are not being told.

I thought it was about not being transparent or not making the bill available for all to read prior to the floor debate and vote.....Ahhhh....different bitching and moaning.

Anyone can read the full bill, a two-page summary, a ten-page summary, 20 different fact sheets on the components of the bill and more.

http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/1...lth-care.shtml

But it won't tell some what they want to here....for that, there are the ideological ops ed from the other side. The ones that describe it as socialism, government take over of health care, screwing grandma.

Or as the Republican leader in the Senate said today, "...the public option may cost you your life."

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I thought it was about not being transparent or not making the bill available for all to read prior to the floor debate and vote.....Ahhhh....different bitching and moaning.

Correct the bill was completely formed behind closed doors with no bi-partisan input. The ideas formed by committtee with no in put from anyone other than Demoncrats.

Anyone can read the full bill, a two-page summary, a ten-page summary, 20 different fact sheets on the components of the bill and more.

Of course you can read the Demoncratic Healthcare Bill. Rahm it down the throats of the people. Fact sheets out by the White House and the Dems. Partisan.

But it won't tell some what they want to here....for that, there are the ideological ops ed from the other side. The ones that describe it as socialism, government take over of health care, screwing grandma.

The facts are painful.

Or as the Republican leader in the Senate said today, [i]"...the public option may cost you your life."

I could only hope.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Correct the bill was completely formed behind closed doors with no bi-partisan input. The ideas formed by committtee with no in put from anyone other than Demoncrats.

In fact, the underlying bill (the one adopted in July) that the final bill mirrors in most respects, accepted 14-15 Republican amendments and rejected 25-30 amendments.

That's called majority rules.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Fact sheets out by the White House and the Dems. Partisan.

The facts are painful.

I get it now.

Facts sheets from the White House and Democrats are partisan opinions......and partisan opinions from those opposed to the bill are facts.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I could only hope.

You hope this bill may cost people their lives?

How sad or mean-spirited is that.

[TheMercenary]

Hey Redux. How about all those jobs the White House claims they made. To bad they can't show anyone how they got their numbers and most experts agree it is more smoke and mirrors bullshit from Rahm.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Hey Redux. How about all those jobs the White House claims they made. To bad they can't show anyone how they got their numbers and most experts agree it is more smoke and mirrors bullshit from Rahm.

The 640,000+ jobs created or saved announced today is from data provided by the states, both red and blue states. BTW, these are separate from the 30,000 private contract jobs announced earlier (where the ap claimed a 10% over-statement).

http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

Even if they are off by 10%, the numbers dont lie that much.

And its been fun to watch Republican governors (and members of Congress) hold those checks up at public local events and proudly declare they are savng jobs....then go back to their office and bitch about the program.

Given that much of the ARRA money has yet to be spent, creating or saving more than 1-2 million jobs over the 18th month period envisioned in the bill seems about right to me. The talk of 3+ million ...probably not.

[spudcon]

Why fact sheets? Why not the 2000 sheet bill they're voting on?

Originally Posted by spudcon

Why fact sheets? Why not the 2000 sheet bill they're voting on?

Hey...I admit that Boehner waving the 1900+ bill makes great political theater!

When the version is double-spaced, with oversized fonts and only printed across half the page!

Members get a detailed section-by-section summary w/o all the legal references to existing US Code....as well as detailed briefings by the majority (or minority) staff.

And, in addition to the fact sheets, the public has access to easy-to-read four or ten page summaries which come right from the bill and are not opinion.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And those, "detailed briefings" and "easy-to-read four or ten page summaries", are created by non-partisan, no axe to grind, no agenda, never saw a lobbyist, Capitol Fairies.

The summarized intent of a bill, is rarely the full consequences of a law that gets passed. Sure keeps the lawyers and courts busy, though.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

And those, "detailed briefings" and "easy-to-read four or ten page summaries", are created by non-partisan, no axe to grind, no agenda, never saw a lobbyist, Capitol Fairies.

The summarized intent of a bill, is rarely the full consequences of a law that gets passed. Sure keeps the lawyers and courts busy, though.

There is also the non-partisan CRS summary and the non-partisan CBO cost analysis (granted, its only a "best" estimate).

And of course, the health insurance companies love this bill so much, they are spending $millions in lobbying and public media campaigns against it.

There are winners and losers in every major piece of legislation and there is no such thing as a perfect bill...there are always trade-offs and there always have been.

IMO, the big winners are:

the 30-40 million currently uninsured, most of whom are hard working, productive citizens who just happened to work for small businesses that dont provide insurance and who personally cannot afford insurance on the current open market.

the 200+ million who are now covered by employer-based plans who wont see their contributions continue to increase at a rate more than double their salary every year, whose out-of-pocket annual expenses will now be capped so that no one faces bankruptcy as a result of an unforeseen medical crisis, who wont have to make co-pays for basic preventive care, and whose insurance will now be more portable if/when they change jobs.

and those with pre-exisiting conditions who will no longer be denied coverage at affordable rates.

There are no guarantees in life and even fewer in federal legislation.

You go with your best shot and proceed towards achieving the goals set in the legislation...and if necessary, once implemented, make corrections along the way.

The Republicans had their shot for eight years and chose to do nothing.

Or we could just continue to let the problem fester.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Redux

And of course, the health insurance companies love this bill so much, they are spending $millions in lobbying and public media campaigns against it.

Of course they are, this would cut into the obscene profits they're reaping.

There are winners and losers in every major piece of legislation and there is no such thing as a perfect bill...there are always trade-offs and there always have been.

True, but I think it's the elected rep's job to find out, as honestly as possible, just what they are before voting them into law.
Communicating them to his/her constituants would be nice, but that's probably a bit polyanna.

Or we could just continue to let the problem fester.

Just for tonight, (Halloween), then uncle fester goes back in the ground.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

There are winners and losers in every major piece of legislation and there is no such thing as a perfect bill...there are always trade-offs and there always have been.

I'm curious who you think the losers are.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Hey...I admit that Boehner waving the 1900+ bill makes great political theater!

That bitch Pelosi is Queen of that game!

[Shawnee123]

Redux, dude, that ain't no Boehner.

There's no cigarette or Old-fashioned sitting next to him.

He's my congressman, my district. I waited on him as the wanna-be's in town courted him at the Country Club (years ago!)

My older brother works in such a position that he has a lot of time at the state house, and became fairly buddies with the Boehner.

My brother and I decline to discuss politics.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

....He's my congressman, my district. I waited on him as the wanna-be's in town courted him at the Country Club (years ago!)

Four degrees of separation!

Shawnee --> waitress at Boehner country club
Boehner --> opposing party leader to Pelosi
Pelosi --> daughter of former Baltimore mayor Tommy D'Alesadro
Redux --> lifeguard at D'Alesandro country club (years ago!)