Times are tough all over

[Shawnee123]

If you're paying 60,000 in taxes, you must be a CEO of a bank or something.

Total. Tax. Liability.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

If you're paying 60,000 in taxes, you must be a CEO of a bank or something.

Total. Tax. Liability.

Not a CEO. But I do work 5 jobs, one as an employee and the other four as a independent contractor, working for myself.

[classicman]

I pay far more than I ever get back. I have never gotten back more than I have paid in. Furthermore, the deductions I get for having children do not even remotely cover the actual costs associated with raising, caring for & educating them.

What am I missing here?

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

I pay far more than I ever get back. I have never gotten back more than I have paid in. Furthermore, the deductions I get for having children do not even remotely cover the actual costs associated with raising, caring for & educating them.

What am I missing here?

You must not be doing your taxes right, then. A single parent with what, 2 or 3 deductions, will get more money back than paid in due to EIC and additional child tax credit.

To play debil's advocate (and I get so tired of saying this) I KNOW it costs money to raise children. I didn't get you, or your ex, pregnant. I didn't participate in the coitus, had nothing to do with YOUR sperm or HER egg, and wasn't even invited into the delivery room.

I assure you my TOTAL. TAX. LIABILITY. is not in the negative range. I've seen about 20 tax forms so far today. There was one single person, one married couple...the rest all made a profit on their taxes.

I think we should change the system to an "adopt a family" system. I'll just write my tax payment check out to a family of my choosing every year. I'd feel better.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I've seen about 20 tax forms so far today.

Think about what kind of people walk through your door. You're not seeing a fair sampling of the overall tax returns out there. I think because you are seeing this every single day, multiple times a day, you are thinking it's a big problem. But your job is to see exactly this group of people. The people who don't make a lot, but who know to fill out forms to get what is being offered.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's true, glatt, good point. But what she's saying does prove there is that class, or sub-class, of people out there. It's just a question of how big that class is.

[glatt]

Sure. But they aren't doing anything that they aren't supposed to be doing. If they weren't eligible for those benefits, the government wouldn't provide them. And I'd argue that they are the good ones, because they are actually seeing Shawnee so they can get an education and hopefully get out of the situation they are in.

[Shawnee123]

Classic,

From all I've seen and heard McCain is promising 5 grand more to families.

Who do you think pays for that? Where is that funding going to come from? Oh, you're all welcome.

glatt--good point, but I don't just see poor people. I see many middle class, upper middle class as well. Those who know they won't be eligible for free money still need to go through the steps to get student loans. I don't see any millionaires, but I see an awful lot of upwards of 60 grand. I see upper middle class as well as poor.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

You must not be doing your taxes right, then. A single parent with what, 2 or 3 deductions, will get more money back than paid in due to EIC and additional child tax credit.

Didn't have it for most of the time that was happening. Now my income is >.< that much over the limit.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

To play debil's advocate (and I get so tired of saying this) I KNOW it costs money to raise children. I didn't get you, or your ex, pregnant. I didn't participate in the coitus, had nothing to do with YOUR sperm or HER egg, and wasn't even invited into the delivery room. I get tired of people wanting children then whining about how much it costs to raise them: you made a choice. I didn't make that choice for you.

Absolutely correct - That is Merc's point almost verbatim.

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I assure you my TOTAL. TAX. LIABILITY. is not in the negative range. I've seen about 20 tax forms so far today. There was one single person, one married couple...the rest all made a profit on their taxes.

OK lets do it this way then - Will "those people" then get MORE of my hard earned money under Obama's plan? Fuck that - I worked for it I earned it - I WANT IT.

Pico - Yes I took the food stamps as they were the only thing I qualified for. I could have gotten a heck of a lot more if I CHOSE not to work. I actually grossed less by working more and moving toward being self reliant and independent. Many - too many choose not to do so.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

Didn't have it for most of the time that was happening. Now my income is >.< that much over the limit.


Absolutely correct - That is Merc's point almost verbatim.


OK lets do it this way then - Will "those people" then get MORE of my hard earned money under Obama's plan? Fuck that - I worked for it I earned it - I WANT IT.

Pico - Yes I took the food stamps as they were the only thing I qualified for. I could have gotten a heck of a lot more if I CHOSE not to work. I actually grossed less by working more and moving toward being self reliant and independent. Many - too many choose not to do so.

What he said. Verbatim.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yes, but that's becoming unamerican.

[Pico and ME]

Merc could you live on $350 a week? Consider trying to make rent, groceries, gas, utilities, insurance and whatnot on that amount. Now, take off the taxes are that ARE taken out of that check and try. I work with people who have to make hard choices about what gets paid or not. Life is really really hard at that level. A LOT of people are trying to struggle through at that level.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Merc could you live on $350 a week? Consider trying to make rent, groceries, gas, utilities, insurance and whatnot on that amount. Now, take off the taxes are that ARE taken out of that check and try. I work with people who have to make hard choices about what gets paid or not. Life is really really hard at that level. A LOT of people are trying to struggle through at that level.

Without going into my personal circumstances too much...
I know I couldn't - I tried. Caring for a family of 5 on that is impossible. So I got a 2nd job and a third job and put myself through college so that I could independently provide better for my family. I did what was necessary to generate more money.
I received food stamps and using them made me sick every time - The stigma THAT I FELT taking a handout was a great motivating factor for me.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by classicman

Without going into my personal circumstances too much...
I know I couldn't - I tried. Caring for a family of 5 on that is impossible. So I got a 2nd job and a third job and put myself through college so that I could independently provide better for my family. I did what was necessary to generate more money.
I received food stamps and using them made me sick every time - The stigma THAT I FELT taking a handout was a great motivating factor for me.

I really admire you classic, that can't have been easy. I think it is enormously to your credit that your rose to the challenge and didn't drown. But, consider this: with society stepping in to help carry some of that burden, maybe you wouldn't have had to work three jobs and would have had more time to spend with the family you were working so hard to raise. Why not? If the children you were raising grow up to be strong and well educated, proud and loving, responsible and courageous, do you not think that society will reap the benefit of that?

Let society, the wider community, take some of the burden when raising a family becomes an almost insurmountable task. The good that your children might do in the world, could extend far beyond their front lawn. Why should parents, working hard to bring about the nation's most precious and valuable asset, be left stranded high and dry, humiliated in front of their kids with voucher-based charity, or separating themselves from ther children for much of their waking lives?

The fierce independence of the American way is wonderful. That people take such strong responsiblity for themselves and their families is a worthy and admirable thing. But there is a price.

[Pico and ME]

Another success story for government programs. My Mom did the same Classic. You may have felt bad for taking the handouts, but thank goodness they were there to help you over the hump of hard times.