I Think It Is Time We Got Involved.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Because nobody had guns anywhere....

[glatt]

I feel like I've mentioned this here before, so forgive me if I have, but in 3rd grade, in Tuscon, Arizona in 1976, my friend brought a handgun to school for show and tell. I think it was a Luger.

The teacher asked to hold it in her desk for the day, but gave it to him for the show and tell portion so he could show it and tell about it.

He had found it in the desert, and his dad let him keep it. He told the story about how he fired it at a cactus one time, and when he went to look at the hole in the cactus, he saw a dead lizard behind the cactus that the bullet had also hit.

At the end of the day, the teacher gave him the gun back, and he went home. Maybe there were some phone calls that I wasn't aware of, but the boy was back in school the next day and seemed perfectly normal. No evidence that he had gotten in trouble.

[Lamplighter]

A coincidence of NY Times news articles today and Glatt's post above.
...maybe a bit of "deeper thinking" is creeping into society at large


NY Times
JANE GROSS
12/3/13
Born of Grief, ‘Three Strikes’ Laws Are Being Rethought

<snip>A few noted criminologists predicted at the time that “three strikes” laws,
which would sweep the nation, were unlikely to have much effect on crime,
would fill the nation’s prisons to bursting and would satisfy frustrated voters
at the expense of bad public policy. They were largely ignored.

As this Retro Report points out, California voters eventually concluded
that its three strikes law was excessive in its zeal and financial burden,
and last year they amended the law that Mr. Reynolds had put before them two decades earlier.
<snip>

——————

NY Times
LIZETTE ALVAREZ
December 2, 2013

Seeing the Toll, Schools Revise Zero Tolerance

<snip>The Florida district, the sixth largest in the nation, was far from an outlier.
In the past two decades, schools around the country have seen suspensions,
expulsions and arrests for minor nonviolent offenses climb together
with the number of police officers stationed at schools.

The policy, called zero tolerance, first grew out of the war on drugs in the 1990s and became
more aggressive in the wake of school shootings like the one at Columbine High School in Colorado.<snip>

But in November, Broward veered in a different direction, joining other large school districts,
including Los Angeles, Baltimore, Chicago and Denver, in backing away from the get-tough approach.

Rather than push children out of school, districts like Broward are now doing the opposite:
choosing to keep lawbreaking students in school, away from trouble on the streets,
and offering them counseling and other assistance aimed at changing behavior.<snip>

[busterb]

YEARS ago I guess everyone who could afford a pocket knife, had one in school. I've carried my shot gun to school and left it in the principle's office. Then on school bus to spend the weekend with friend in the country. If you had a problem with someone, you carried it to the football field and sorted it out. No teachers involved. I've had to go get stitches afterwards. No 3 day pass or anything.

[Undertoad]

I guess I'm in the camp where assault isn't the answer to minor disagreements and children should not be carrying fucking guns everywhere.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And the beat goes on...

Three Edison students who were charged with disorderly conduct pleaded not guilty in court. The boys were with about a dozen basketball teammates Wednesday morning on Main Street waiting for a school bus to take them to a scrimmage at Aquinas. There was no school that day and their coach had arranged for a pick-up at a central meeting spot.

An officer asked the boys to disperse and they refused. The young men say they tried to explain to him they were waiting for a school bus. The officer arrested three of the players.

The police report says the students were obstructing "pedestrian traffic while standing on a public sidewalk...preventing free passage of citizens walking by and attempting to enter and exit a store...Your complainant gave several lawful clear and concise orders for the group to disperse and leave the area without complaince."

Their coach, Jacob Scott, who is also a district guidance counselor, arrived at the location as the three students were placed in handcuffs. Scott said he pleaded with the officer to let the boys go, saying he was supervising them.

"He goes on to say, 'If you don't disperse, you're going to get booked as well,'" Scott said. "I said, 'Sir, I'm the adult. I'm their varsity basketball coach. How can you book me? What am I doing wrong? Matter of fact, what are these guys doing wrong?'"

And of course...

Scott said a sergeant showed up and backed up his officer.

[glatt]

Rochester school board member Mary Adams showed up to the arraignment.

"I think the charges should be immediately dropped and I think the district attorney's office should be stepping in an looking at these kinds of matters," Adams said.

I'm with Mary Adams. The DA didn't have to take the case on. And they are elected. Vote the fascists out.

[Clodfobble]

Yeah, I was surprised to learn how much power DAs actually have in that regard. Just about any crime, they can simply choose not to prosecute and the whole thing disappears. Of course the fear of getting voted out is supposed to keep them in line, but if there's no big media coverage of a particular crime, it can be swept under the rug without too much hassle at all.

[xoxoxoBruce]

But DAs do need convictions to show they are earning they're keep, and if they offend the cops they won't get the cooperation/support they need to do that.

[Big Sarge]

The DA has no business in this matter. It is a municipal court matter that will be prosecuted by the city prosecutor. The kids have the option to file a civil rights violation that would be investigated by the FBI, but it would more likely end up a civil suit

[Clodfobble]

I'm confused, Sarge. Don't all the city prosecutors work for the DA's office?

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I'm confused, Sarge. Don't all the city prosecutors work for the DA's office?

District Attorneys prosecute felony cases that occur in their jurisdiction. Municipal Prosecutors handle misdemeanor cases in their jurisdiction. Justice Courts or County Courts, which use the County Prosecutor, handle misdemeanor cases generated by the sheriff's department, set bonds in felony cases unless it is one of the 5 heinous crimes which can result in the depth penalty or life in prison, and handle preliminary hearings for District Court.

To be charged by the District Attorney in a felony case, he can take a case directly to the grand jury and seek a secret indictment. That forgoes all of the pretrial hearings and takes the suspect directly to trial reducing the discovery time.

So to answer your question, a municipal prosecutor or county prosecutor can tell the DA to fuck off. Now it really gets interesting when we factor in the federal prosecutors and the duties of Federal magistrates, district judges, and circuit judges.

The whole problem in understanding in who does what can be boiled down to police dramas and that totally unrealistic piece of shit show CSI. Who has ever heard of a forensic investigator making arrests? A forensic investigator only collects and analyzes evidence. The results are given to the criminal investigators ( sworn and commissioned officers) who interpret the evidence and decide whom to arrest.

Whew! That felt good to get off of my chest

[Big Sarge]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I guess I'm in the camp where assault isn't the answer to minor disagreements and children should not be carrying fucking guns everywhere.

I'm afraid we have cultural differences. Maybe we didn't have school shootings back then because we settled problems with our fists. I was small and picked on till I stood up and knocked a kid out with my trombone case applied to his head.

As for guns, Addie has been shooting .22's since she was 4 yoa. Just a different culture

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

I was small and picked on till I stood up and knocked a kid out with my trombone case applied to his head.

Nowadays, you would have gotten in just as much trouble as the bully. Maybe more, if the only thing the school employee saw was you hitting him, and none of the harassment leading up to it. Another side effect of zero tolerance.

[Undertoad]

I'm afraid we have cultural differences.

Right, you were raised that way and so it is just fine with you, Q.E.D.