Iran Nuclear Negotiations

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Griff

What have we won with war lately?

Bibi will not be satisfied with anything short of war. Thankfully he isn't part of our government, although he does have his minions.

1)
With the help of the cold war arms race, we destroyed the Soviet pact of nations aligned with Russia. Many are now independent, and democratic republics. That is to say, their lack of a vibrant economy, destroyed themselves, with few bullets having been fired.

That's the biggest step toward world freedom of nations, since the break up of the Ottoman Empire, almost a hundred years ago, so it's a VERY big deal.

2)
We stopped the German nationalists/fascists, twice. If we had not done so, we would now be either German servants/slaves, or exterminated in more efficient gas chambers/crematoriums.

This is what the Germans told the Lithuanians after they were conquered in WWII, when asked what will become of us:

"We are leaving for the Eastern Front. You will be allowed to work for us, until we get back. Eventually, you will be liquidated."

So stopping the fascists was a pretty big deal, if you aren't fond of Cyclon B gas.

3)
We replace a repressive dictator in Iraq. Bush lied to us to do it, but still, it's done, and I'm not sad about knocking off a regime that gassed it's own citizens, and started two wars (with Iran and us, in Desert Shield), and invaded two other countries: Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Whether you believe the ripple effect of this was the springboard for the "Arab Spring" or not, is up to you. Some would say it was, and I find their argument of the time line, believable.

4)
We knocked a big hole in Al-Qaeda's groups of religious fascists. It hasn't put them out of business, but they're busy dodging hellfire missiles, pretty much, to attack us very successfully.

5)
The U.N. was begun to work out issues that without diplomacy, would lead to war. Without WWI and WWII, there wouldn't be a U.N.

6)
Since the US was not attacked directly (much), during these wars, we were hugely benefited by the industrial capacity we had, to be the supplier or war material, to the Allies. This gave us a huge increase in wealth in our country.

We rose to be a superpower, in the space of a mere 50 years or less. Every American has benefited from that.

And that's just for starters.

[Griff]

I agree with number 2 in the second case.