Iran Nuclear Negotiations

[Griff]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25074729

Iran has agreed to curb some of its nuclear activities in return for about $7bn (£4.3bn) in sanctions relief, after days of intense talks in Geneva.

US President Barack Obama welcomed the deal, saying it included "substantial limitations which will help prevent Iran from building a nuclear weapon".

Iran agreed to give better access to inspectors and halt some of its work on uranium enrichment.

President Rouhani said the interim deal recognised Iran's nuclear "rights".

But he repeated, in a nationwide broadcast, that his country would never seek a nuclear weapon.

[Adak]

I applaud their efforts in this negotiation, but Iran has not put a REAL stop to their nuclear ambitions.

As Israeili Prime Minister Netanyahu, states here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25083875
(video link near the middle of the article)

Some sanctions that took years to put into place, and more years to become effective, will be removed, but Iran could be back enriching it's uranium in a matter of a few weeks. The plutonium is still there, the heavy water reactor is still functioning.

Not just still THERE, but still a working nuclear facility.

The world powers have told Iran it's OK to have their own nuclear enrichment site. If Iran can have one, then everyone can have one - that's clear. This is a major precedent, surely.

And what about the inspections? They can be held daily, at just two facilities - notably, NOT at the heavy water facility.

Hoping for the best here; short term, it's easy to see it as a win-win, but I'm not optimistic about the terms of this deal, being enough to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. How hard can it be to have your nuclear weapons program run from sites OTHER THAN, the two being inspected, over and over?

We can win wars frequently, but we're not nearly as good at winning negotiations.

[Griff]

What have we won with war lately?

Bibi will not be satisfied with anything short of war. Thankfully he isn't part of our government, although he does have his minions.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

What have we won with war lately?

Wars are won only when we are reluctant to engage. Wars are lost by nations in a hurry to conduct one.

Israel's Likud is an example of the latter. Likud will heavily compaign for unilateral attacks (and against peace) where they are more often successful - the US Congress.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by tw

Wars are won only when we are reluctant to engage. Wars are lost by nations in a hurry to conduct one.

Well said.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Griff

What have we won with war lately?

Bibi will not be satisfied with anything short of war. Thankfully he isn't part of our government, although he does have his minions.

1)
With the help of the cold war arms race, we destroyed the Soviet pact of nations aligned with Russia. Many are now independent, and democratic republics. That is to say, their lack of a vibrant economy, destroyed themselves, with few bullets having been fired.

That's the biggest step toward world freedom of nations, since the break up of the Ottoman Empire, almost a hundred years ago, so it's a VERY big deal.

2)
We stopped the German nationalists/fascists, twice. If we had not done so, we would now be either German servants/slaves, or exterminated in more efficient gas chambers/crematoriums.

This is what the Germans told the Lithuanians after they were conquered in WWII, when asked what will become of us:

"We are leaving for the Eastern Front. You will be allowed to work for us, until we get back. Eventually, you will be liquidated."

So stopping the fascists was a pretty big deal, if you aren't fond of Cyclon B gas.

3)
We replace a repressive dictator in Iraq. Bush lied to us to do it, but still, it's done, and I'm not sad about knocking off a regime that gassed it's own citizens, and started two wars (with Iran and us, in Desert Shield), and invaded two other countries: Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Whether you believe the ripple effect of this was the springboard for the "Arab Spring" or not, is up to you. Some would say it was, and I find their argument of the time line, believable.

4)
We knocked a big hole in Al-Qaeda's groups of religious fascists. It hasn't put them out of business, but they're busy dodging hellfire missiles, pretty much, to attack us very successfully.

5)
The U.N. was begun to work out issues that without diplomacy, would lead to war. Without WWI and WWII, there wouldn't be a U.N.

6)
Since the US was not attacked directly (much), during these wars, we were hugely benefited by the industrial capacity we had, to be the supplier or war material, to the Allies. This gave us a huge increase in wealth in our country.

We rose to be a superpower, in the space of a mere 50 years or less. Every American has benefited from that.

And that's just for starters.

[Griff]

I agree with number 2 in the second case.