Alleged US spy crucified in Yemen

[Griff]

I'd like to beat the lines and come out against the next war now.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

I'd like to beat the lines and come out against the next war now.

I disagree. Why would one, who was so adamently vocal against Mission Accomplished long before it started, also disagree? Why am I not against war?

Because war is sometimes necessary. The problem is not war. The problem is top management and their brainwashed followers who see war as a solution to anything. Who forget fundamental requirements (defined 2000 years before Columbus) that are necessary for any war.

The problem is not war. The problem is too many low intelligent leaders and their ideologue followers who love big guns and the thrill. Who are therefore the greatest enemy of the American soldier.

Vietnam and Mission Accomplished are examples of so many leaders and citizens with contempt for the American soldier. Back in 1990, I was calling for an inevitable war (Desert Storm) long before many knew where Iraq was. Ironcially, the low intelligent people who said we could do nothing in Kuwait (ie Cheney, Rumsfeld) were (a decade later) calling for useless war against Saddam. Saddam was a threat to no one.

Desert Storm was absolutely necessary. Mission Accomplished had zero purpose. Afghanistan was necessary. And then George Jr surrendered to the Taliban making a second Afghanistan war necessary. So many deaths in that second Afghanistan war created by low intelligent leaders and people just as dumb as to no see the low intelligence.

Soundbytes have no purpose here. War must be justified by underlying reasons why. WWII and Desert Storm was essential. Vietnam and Mission Accomplished are perfect examples of what happens when extremist (low intelligent) leaders use their penis rather than their skull for thinking.

Respect for the American soldier means war justified only by fundamental and previously posted facts. A set of facts that start with the smoking gun. Respect for the American soldier means you (every reader) must understand when war has no purpose and when war is absolutely necessary. Only you, the citizen, decide whether soldiers are killed uselessly (ie Mission Accomplished). Or because it is necessary (WWII, Desert Storm). Only you, the citizen, decided to let George Jr massacre 5000 Americans because he and his administration was that dumb - also called extremist..

The stand should not be against war. The stand should be against low intelligent leaders and "Rush Limbaugh" type disciples who have a long history of contempt for the American soldier.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by tw

Why am I not against war?

Because a man you trust is in control. We support war when we trust our leaders. While far superior to Bush or Romney the President has quite a laundry list of over-reach himself. Is the Patriot Act any less onerous? See any consequences to our drone war? Our trust is misplaced when it comes to war. The lure of our military power has become too strong for any leader. We have invested so much in being the greatest power ever that to not use the machinery seems like a waste of resources. The solution seems simple until the consequences of our actions become clearer. How is that Arab Spring looking? Not all sunshine and lollipops. Financially and morally, we cannot continue. We need to get our own house in order.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

Because a man you trust is in control. We support war when we trust our leaders. While far superior to Bush or Romney the President has quite a laundry list of over-reach himself. Is the Patriot Act any less onerous?

Patriot Act was created by the same people who invented Freedom Fries. Whose Freedom Foundation is an extremist political organization masking as a think tank. Freedom Group mass produces assault weapons. Even tried to rename the World Trade Center as Freedom Tower for political spin. 'Freedom' even justified Mission Accomplished. Those who ask damning questions (and therefore are patriots) can appreciate how ideologues have even perverted the meaning of 'Freedom'. See the problem by using reasoning that only adults are capable of.

Patriot Act was openly advocated and encouraged by those who blindly believe what they are told - like a child. Who cannot see through lies, myths, advertising, spin, and propaganda by asking damning questions. Who even associated 'Freedom' with the Patriot act. Because the words *sound* so American. 'Sound' as in "I know it must be true because I feel it is true".

That problem is not solved by banning wars. That problem is solved by first identifying the problem. How many more America soldiers will die because so many Americans still listen to propaganda from Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh? Benchmarks. Anyone who gets all his news from Fox News is that problem. Those sources use emotions - not facts - to manipulate those who remain a problem.

The problem is people who just know without doing what everyone was taught in junior high school science.

How anti-American are so many? This is where each reader should ask, "Does this make me angry or logically curious?" Do you plug your computer into a power strip protector? An example of brainwashing. That same thinking is why so many American soldiers were massacred by un-American (uneducated) citizens.

If that protector does protection, then hard facts say so. Numbers (provided with the product) say that product is a scam like Listerine, Pond's Age Defying Creams, energy drinks, and Geritol. Why do we massacre American soldiers? Because so many do not even see through scams routinely promoted in the market - such as miracle diet foods and pills. How many spend money on Airborne or miracle cold remedies? No wonder so many loved to massacre 5000 Americans in Mission Accomplished.

A solution starts by identifying the problem. And not by curing symptoms - such as banning future wars.

Defined previously were three hard facts necessary to justify a war. Benchmarks repeatedly posted the year before George Jr invented a lie called Missoin Accomplished. Three requirements necessary to justify a war can be learned from mistakes that were so obvious in 2003. Because soldiers never decide to march off to their death. Everyone reading this makes that decision.

Defined is a requirement for being a Patriotic American. He must be educated and informed. Otherwise he is as anti-American as Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Murdoch, and Fox News. All people who gleefully advocated the massacre of 5000 American soldiers. Perfect examples of why the problem exists.

Yes, we need to get our house in order. That includes what everyone should expect. Maybe as much as a 50% reduction in our military. Because the cuts we must make in the future are due to the bills incurred in 2003 Iraq and 2008 Afghantistan. The massive harm to our military made necessary because so many (even here) so hated the American military as to approve of Mission Accomplished. We should all be learning from that mistake and the wacko extremist George Jr adminstration that did that damage (including to the economy).

But we do so also acknowledging how that will harm us and the world in the long term. There are consequences to every action. Unfortunately, only adults who think like adults understand what future consequences will be.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by tw

Patriot Act was created by the same people who invented Freedom Fries.

...and it continues to be the law of the land because disavowing accumulated power is not within our President's capacity.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

...and it continues to be the law of the land because disavowing accumulated power is not within our President's capacity.

You remain the few who complain. Your gripe is admirable. But appreciate how many are so brainwashed as to wait for Limbaugh, et al to tell them how to think. Extremists do not want our privacy rights restored. I believe Scalia even doubted the constitution grants any right of privacy. Few to none in the Cellar or America complain about the Patriot Act.

Why would Obama start another fight (over privacy rights) when we know exactly what the Republican agenda is. A meeting was organized by Luntz the night of Obama's first inauguration. Attended by every major Republican power broker of that time including Ryan, Cantor, DeMint, Kyl, Coburn, and McCarthy. Their decision four years ago was to obstruct everything. Even a large minority of Obama's appointments were held up by secret holds. Even forcing Nobel laurets to withdraw their names. During the Healthcare debate, they even got the public to openly express racial slurs. Because these Republicans are very good at rallying into tirades many adults who are still children.

Why should Obama rescind the Patriot Act? It would only become another excuse to provoke a beehive of tea party wackos? Obama must pick his battles with a House that was elected on principles defined by Limbaugh. "We want America to fail so that Obama will fail". You can read that brainwashing even in some Cellar contributors.

No reason to rescind the Patriot Act when so few to almost none are as concerned. Why would Obama pick another fight with a tea party (anti-American) dominated Congress? That makes no sense. He has more pressing issues.

You are right to be concerned with the Patriot Act. Your complaint results in so little encouragement even in the Cellar.

Try, for example, to get Adak to campaign hard for the elimination of the Patriot Act. A true conservative should want that. Convince him and you have some reason to believe Obama should risk political capital. Currently, many other more pressing issues need attention. Conservatives who should most be concerned with privacy do not want the Patriot Act rescinded. It is their proud creation.

Be it Mission Accomplished, tax cut to the wealthy to create recessions, protecting major communications companies (Comcast, Verizon) at the expense of America’s internet and public interest, destruction of science, basic research and innovation, and even attacking American allies as socialist liberals. Let's be quite clear about this. These wackos all but subverted American efforts to get bin Laden. Because keeping the bogeyman alive was good for their politics.

Obama can only do so much. Too many others problems need more attention. Too few in the public care about the Patriot Act. How many besided you have expressed that quite obvious concern?

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by tw

... Why should Obama rescind the Patriot Act? It would only become another excuse to provoke a beehive of tea party wackos? Obama must pick his battles...

... No reason to rescind the Patriot Act when so few to almost none are as concerned. Why would Obama pick another fight with a tea party (anti-American) dominated Congress? That makes no sense. He has more pressing issues. ...

... Obama can only do so much. Too many others problems need more attention. Too few in the public care about the Patriot Act. ...

[IMHO] Barack Obama, like other Presidents before him, is enough of a politician that he wouldn't diminish the power of the Presidency by relinquishing authority the position has already acquired. Advancing other rationales, no matter how many times you repeat them, is playing second fiddle. [/IMHO]