The Real Mitt Romney

[Adak]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Has Biden had an abortion? I don't think so. Anyone that tries to push their personal view, whether from their religion or not, on other people, has no business in the government.

That's what Obama does in his health care law. That why the Catholic and a few other churches, are suing the feds for forcing them to accept paying for abortions AND for performing abortions, in their hospitals.

Personally, I believe abortions should be 1st trimester only, and the decision is ultimately up to the woman in consultation with her doctor, and the father, if possible.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Adak

That's what Obama does in his health care law. That why the Catholic and a few other churches, are suing the feds for forcing them to accept paying for abortions AND for performing abortions, in their hospitals.

No, it's not Obama's personal view it's the law, written and passed by congress. Sure he pushed it, but if he'd written it according to his personal view you'd be apoplectic.

Forcing them to pay for contraception like a responsible employer isn't forcing anyone to use them. I guess the Catholic church wants to try to at least keep the poor that can't afford them under control. The numbers seem to show that a great many Catholic women that can afford the pill choose to do so.

Can you site a source on this, "for performing abortions, in their hospitals"?

[Adak]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, it's not Obama's personal view it's the law, written and passed by congress. Sure he pushed it, but if he'd written it according to his personal view you'd be apoplectic.

Forcing them to pay for contraception like a responsible employer isn't forcing anyone to use them. I guess the Catholic church wants to try to at least keep the poor that can't afford them under control. The numbers seem to show that a great many Catholic women that can afford the pill choose to do so.

Can you site a source on this, "for performing abortions, in their hospitals"?

No, I don't have a copy of the 2,000 + page bill. As the suit moves forward, we can get more info from the filed court papers. From what I hear, they are objecting to two things:

1) That they have to pay for what they believe is a sin.

and

2) That their hospitals would have to provide abortion procedures. The doctor and nurses could be non-Catholic, but enabling that procedure is sinful to them, based on their religious beliefs.

The health care bill insists on this because, in some areas, religious hospitals are the only local hospitals.

This is just what I'm hearing on Conservative radio. The talk show host was an attorney and a legal adviser to Ronald Reagan's administration, and Chief of Staff for the Attorney General, Edwin Meese. (Mark Levin)

According to Mark, the Catholic Church is bringing all legal guns to bear on this fight.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Can you site a source on this, "for performing abortions, in their hospitals"?

Originally Posted by Adak

No

My understanding is that the Catholic owned hospitals consider prescribing and/or paying for so called "abortion pills" to be the same as providing an abortion. I don't equate providing a medication to be the same as "performing abortions, in their hospitals."

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

My understanding is that the Catholic owned hospitals consider prescribing and/or paying for so called "abortion pills" to be the same as providing an abortion. I don't equate providing a medication to be the same as "performing abortions, in their hospitals."

Correct. Enabling a sin, makes you a part of it's commission, to the Church, and the same logic is used in law. Enabling a crime, makes you a part of it's commission, usually as an accessory.

Oh, I SO believe the Church lawyers will RIP the feds lawyers to shreds on this case.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Adak

Correct. Enabling a sin, makes you a part of it's commission, to the Church, and the same logic is used in law. Enabling a crime, makes you a part of it's commission, usually as an accessory.

Oh, I SO believe the Church lawyers will RIP the feds lawyers to shreds on this case.

So you would support prosecuting gun dealers who sell guns to people who later use them to commit a crime?

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

So you would support prosecuting gun dealers who sell guns to people who later use them to commit a crime?

Only if a gun dealer knew the gun he sold, was illegal, or was told the gun was intended for the commission of a crime.

Say he sold the gun to a known felon, and didn't put in the paperwork and get the approval needed. That would be a crime.

Or say the buyer came in after the waiting period was over and all the paperwork was done, and told the seller that the gun would be "great", since he "wanted to kill his ex spouse with it".

There, it's a bit more gray, but if the gun hasn't changed hands yet, I'd say he better refund the buyer his money, keep the gun, and notify the police. Certainly, he should NOT sell him anything else, like bullets! There's no better way to protect yourself from future charges in the matter.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Adak

Correct. Enabling a sin, makes you a part of it's commission, to the Church, and the same logic is used in law. Enabling a crime, makes you a part of it's commission, usually as an accessory.

Oh, I SO believe the Church lawyers will RIP the feds lawyers to shreds on this case.

Oh yeah? What's your opinion on Romney's stance then? It appears that he does not agree with you from a religious perspective, he only wants to make abortion illegal from a secular perspective.

See video in previous post.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

My understanding is that the Catholic owned hospitals consider prescribing and/or paying for so called "abortion pills" to be the same as providing an abortion. I don't equate providing a medication to be the same as "performing abortions, in their hospitals."

Could be, because when I ask Google it comes up with both the contraception for employees and having to perform abortions in their hospitals, in the description of the links, but none of the 20 odd links I checked had anything about having to perform abortions.

So it would appear that Adak is just repeating wild claims from right wing talk radio that have no basis.