Too big or too small? (nsfw)

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

OK, so it IS men who make women feel crappy enough about themselves to want to be too thin? Or not thin enough? Or wear too much make up? Or not enough? Or be too short? Or too tall?

My answer to this question was first given to me by a beautiful woman, Elanor Roosevelt. She truthfully reveals who is responsible for making someone feel bad when she said:

Originally Posted by Eleanor Roosevelt

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

It is up to me to choose to give that consent or to withhold it. If a man does something and I feel crappy about it, it's because I have chosen to give his actions or words weight (no pun intended). If a woman says something and my daughter feels bad about it, it is because my daughter has chosen to give that person credibility.

I have credibility with my daughter. I may say something that hurts her (may? I have, sometimes on purpose sometimes by accident, sometimes for good sometimes for ill). But the crappy feeling she has is her feeling. Lord knows, I have striven to inculcate in her a realistic sense of her own worth, one that can withstand such unfortunate experiences. She has, to be sure, her own weaknesses, as do I, and all of you. And sometimes when my weakness lines up with someone's action, intentionally or otherwise, I can feel the impact and sometimes it is very painful. But that's mine, not theirs. They can't make me feel crappy about myself without my consent.

[it]

Originally Posted by BigV

It is up to me to choose to give that consent or to withhold it. If a man does something and I feel crappy about it, it's because I have chosen to give his actions or words weight (no pun intended). If a woman says something and my daughter feels bad about it, it is because my daughter has chosen to give that person credibility

i think your missing a significent element here: we're not neccesrily talking about people calling a woman ugly or bad looking, we're talking about women feeling bad about how they look because other women - with physical characteristics they don't have - get glorified and considered more attractive then they are.

and if there is anyone who doesn't want to be considered attractive, man or woman, then they are being naive. practically all your face to face interactions within human society are going to be influenced by how attractive other people will think you are; it will be easier for you to get help, you are more likely to get promoted, in a good economy you are more likely to get a better paying job and in a bad economy you are more likely to get a job in general, you will have more social networking oppertunities, you will get more social attention, you will have a better selection of mates and an easier time getting them.

who wouldn't want that? no matter what it is you want in life, these will make it easier. even the financial independence required for complete life long solitude is easier to acomplish with this.

now i doubt that when most people want to feel more attractive they think about all those things. for the most part it's just instinctive reactions to social dynamics, such as jelousy or attention seeking. but overcoming those instincts doesn't overcome their practical basis.

and remember: in most aspects, you and me have no freaking clue as to what would make us look hotter - statistically even to many muscles are shunned away by women so male body builders get it wrong too - we might have a general idea about what flaws detract people, but physical ideals range from macho and hairy to boyish & downright feminine, and the traits unattractive to one woman will be cute and charming for the next.

unlike you and me, your daughter will be given a very clear image of what is attractive. regardless if that means she'll feel too skinny or too heavy (that changes from period to period), she will have to deal with this crap.

[Clodfobble]

As far as the reason women can find a much wider range of male "looks" to be attractive, it's simple, but double-layered. First, what does success (money) look like? Well, it can be a lot of things. The nerd can be very successful and wealthy, or his nerdiness can make him incapable of functioning in a group and thus unable to climb a career ladder in any significant way.

But beyond that, there's a lot of evidence that women choose attractiveness based on pheromones and other genetic traits that have very little to do with how the man actually appears. In one study, they had groups of people mingle in a room after none were allowed to shower or use any body products for a day or so. Then they ranked who they found most to least attractive, and did some blood work... and by and large, people--moreso the women, but both sexes to a degree--were found to have ranked as the most attractive the ones who had the most opposite immune system from themselves. (I'm susceptible to bacterial infections, you're not; I have lots of flu antibodies, you have few--let's get it on!)

[Gravdigr]

Re: Your Ms. Brooks:

She ain't bony, but she could sure use a sandwich.

That said, I would not run from Louise.

I wouldn't get with any of those chicks in the top row. Well, maybe Heidi, if she'd pick up fifteen or twenty pounds. They all look like losing cancer patients.

That whole bottom row looks like a smorgasboard.

[Sundae]

V, I wasn't suggesting a man is completely led by his penis.

I was trying to counter Trac's statement that if a woman told a man that another woman was attractive, he would agree.
That is not my experience.

Men themselves decide if they find a woman attractive.
Mentally, emotionally, physically, whatever.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Sundae

I was trying to counter Trac's statement that if a woman told a man that another woman was attractive, he would agree.
That is not my experience.

The correct reply is "Attractive? well ... only so far as she resembles you, darling!"

[infinite monkey]

Originally Posted by classicman

eh hem... height? just sayin.

Originally Posted by ZenGum

The correct reply is "Attractive? well ... only so far as she resembles you, darling!"

"She's OK for a car stereo, but I wouldn't want her in my home."

[infinite monkey]

I've heard it said "don't let anyone rent space in your head" but for me that's a lot easier to say than do.

[monster]

TWeleanor?