Best interests of the child vs parental beliefs

[Lamplighter]

Oregon has numerous religious sects, some in the cities and some in the boondocks.
For the most part, Oregon laws are protective, or a least neutral, toward such groups.

But over the years, we have heard of children dying or
suffering (needlessly ?) due to the religious beliefs of their parents.
Sometimes the State steps in to protect/treat such children, sometimes not.

Here is a case that is unusual in that both parents are sentenced to jail, and
prosecutors are saying openly it is to send a message to the churches.

The Oregonian
Steve Mayes, The Oregonian
October 31, 2011
Note: There is more to the article than I've shown below

Dale and Shannon Hickman receive 6-year sentence, harshest yet for faith-healing church

OREGON CITY – A Clackamas County judge stunned a courtroom packed with supporters
of Dale and Shannon Hickman Monday when he sentenced the couple,
members of an Oregon City faith-healing church, to prison for six years and three months.
<snip>
The Hickmans were convicted of second-degree manslaughter in September
for failing to seek medical care for their son David,
who was born two months prematurely and lived less than nine hours.
An autopsy found he had staph pneumonia and underdeveloped lungs.

Had the Hickmans conceded at trial that David was sick -- but not gravely ill --
and that they relied on faith-healing rituals to cure him, they might have fared differently at sentencing.
But instead of invoking a religious defense, the Hickmans said they saw no reason to call 9-1-1
or seek medical assistance because there was nothing wrong with their son, even as he grew weaker and died.

During the trial, the Hickmans testified that God determines the outcome in all matters.
"Everything that happens, whether it's good or bad, it's God's will,"
Dale Hickman told jurors. "If it's not God's will, it wouldn't be done."

Prosecutor Mike Regan said the sentence sends a message to the church.
The Followers are not fundamentally different from a black-robed pagan group
that sacrifices a sick child in the dead of night, Regan told the court.
In the Followers, "we have a religious group sacrificing children's lives,
year after year, decade after decade," he said. "We have to do something."

Recent juries have seemed generally unsympathetic to the Followers.
Jurors displayed a clear-eyed focus on the legal question underlying all the cases:

What would a reasonable person do in the same situation?
Their short answer: Call a doctor.

[Aliantha]

They should go to jail. I think the right decision was made.

Obviously they wont be upset about going to jail. If it happens, it's god's will right?

[Lamplighter]

Ali, do you see any/many of these sorts of stories in Aus.land ?

Here in PDX, it seems like 1 or 2 a year, and not just infants.
This past summer it was a 16 yr old boy with an infection,
but I don't remember if the parents were brought to trial or not.
Maybe it's just more common in Oregon.

[classicman]

I think it is more common out there Lamp. I don't hear too much locally (this side of the country) There was one not that long ago somewhere over here though.

[Rrrraven]

It looks like the medical opinion is that the child could have been saved if emergency services had been called. Looks like a clear cut case of negligence on the parent's part. I am happy to see justice served in this case. In my experience too many parents get off with a slap on the hand or no charges filed because either there is not enough evidence, no witnesses, or no one believes that a parent would hurt their child. Law enforcement and child protective services investigate but all too often the prosecutor may not feel the case is strong enough to win.

Lots of people get away with murder/manslaughter, it seems especially heinous when the creator of that life is the one responsible for it's loss.

[Aliantha]

It's not very common as far as I've noticed, but that's not to say it doesn't happen.

I think religion plays a much smaller roll in every day life over here, and extreme religious views even smaller.

[ZenGum]

There was a case here a few months back where a baby died. Her father was (IIRC) a homeopath and was treating her with homeopathy. The parents were jailed for neglect.

Once again, you need a permit to have a dog, but almost anyone can have a human.

[DanaC]

I think the sentence is overly harsh. Not in terms of the harm they've caused, but in terms of their levels of intent.

Whatever their belief, they lost their child. However much they may believe that to be God's will, it doesn't mean losing that child wouldn't have hurt as much as any parent would at the loss of a baby. Compounding that grief with a long prison sentence is I think overly harsh.

I'm not quite sure what the answer is in this sort of case. I think forcing them to take some kind of responsibility for what their actions, or inaction, have resulted in is a good thing. A prison sentence is a clear and easily understood expression of that responsibility. Maybe there should be a little reprogramming whilst they're in there, although that may be unconstitutional, i dunno.

But 6 years? This wasn't carelessness, or intentional cruelty. Their actions were fully founded in a strong and perfectly legal faith. One in which society deemed it acceptable that they be raised and educated, and whose right to set the moral standards of their world was constitutionally protected. As long as it is acceptable for church elders and others within a community to perpetrate the notion that good parenting involves total acceptance of God's will to the point of fatal neglect, then parents like these will fail to save their young ones when illness or injury strike.

Again, what the answer is, I don't know. But I feel a lot of sorrow for those parents.

[Aliantha]

If they're the sort of loonies who think if their child dies because it was gods will rather than the fact that modern medicine possibly if not probably could have saved the child, but they decided not to call a doctor, then again I say, it's gods will that they go to jail.

Why should they get any special consideration just because they thought they were doing the right thing? I might think it's the right thing to not stop my car from hitting someone's kid in the street because gods will put them in harms way so he must want to call them home.

Nope, sorry. No sympathy from me.

[monster]

Had the Hickmans conceded at trial that David was sick -- but not gravely ill --
and that they relied on faith-healing rituals to cure him, they might have fared differently at sentencing.
But instead of invoking a religious defense, the Hickmans said they saw no reason to call 9-1-1
or seek medical assistance because there was nothing wrong with their son, even as he grew weaker and died.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Their actions were fully founded in a strong and perfectly legal faith. .

The OP agrees with you. Their sentence is because they claim they saw nothing wrong, and they might have got off lighter if they had claimed they were trusting in God to heal him. Or am I reading that wrong?

[Clodfobble]

I think that's right, monster. They weren't saying, "He was sick, but we had faith God would heal him," they were saying, "He was completely fine, and God randomly took him because that's what God does."

[DanaC]

Ahhh. I misread the OP.

In that case the sentence seems fair.

[BigV]

Dana,

Try simply leaving their faith out of the question. What if the child was sick, but the parents did or didn't do xyz and as a result of those actions or inactions, the child died, which is exactly what happened here. In this case, it was inaction. What if the parents didn't provide enough food for the child? I see your hungry, but oh well. Or shelter? You're not cold, you're just faking. That's simple neglect. Gross, fatal neglect, and the child died as a result of that neglect. What then? Jail?

[DanaC]

yes jail.

I never argued that they shouldn't be in jail. I was just thinking it seemed a harsh sentence. That said, I had misread the article, and apparently they just plain neglected the kid.

[Sundae]

There was a recent case here where a mother force-fed her child.
To death.

Apparently it is an acceptable practice in Ghana (where the mother grew up) where fat babies are healthy babies.
But she had already been warned about the practice by child services, and carried on.

The poor girl died from pneumonia - triggered by the food in her lungs, not uncommon in these cases.

Mum gets sentenced next month.
Could be up to 14 years.
Unlikely to be as her actions, although misguided, were motivated by concern for the child's wellbeing.

What can you do?
On the one hand people bleat about freedom and Mother Knows Best.
On the other hand social services are to blame if a child slips through the net.
And of course it's the little children who suffer either way.