What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

[TheMercenary]

Well, until then, I would hope that AZ can conduct it's business without interference from the Feds. Further, the sooner the other border states join AZ the better. Maybe the Feds will be pushed to control the borders.

For the record:

Hines v. Davidowitz, 312 U.S. 52 (1941) is a case applying the law of conflict preemption. The United States Supreme Court held that a state system of alien registration was superseded by a federal system (the Alien Registration Act) because it was an "obstacle to accomplishment" of its goals.

Justice Hugo L. Black emphasized the supremacy of federal power over this area of law:

That the supremacy of the national power in the general field of foreign affairs, including power over immigration, naturalization and deportation, is made clear by the Constitution, was pointed out by the authors of The Federalist in 1787, and has since been given continuous recognition by this Court. When the national government by treaty or statute has established rules and regulations touching the rights, privileges, obligations or burdens of aliens as such, the treaty or statute is the supreme law of the land. No state can add to or take from the force and effect of such treaty or statute,...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hines_v._Davidowitz

And I am still not clear if you even support the idea that the federal judiciary should make the legal determination....or if you think the AZ law should be accepted on faith, because its popular and the governor says its constitutional or for some other reason.

BTW, the buzz is that the DoJ might announce its filing with the court tomorrow after Obama gives a speech on immigration reform.

[classicman]

...

[Spexxvet]

[IMG][/IMG]

[lookout123]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

[IMG][/IMG]

I think the assumption of an accent simply because of his outward physical appearance smacks of racism... where's my lawyer?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

...

That is so true...

[TheMercenary]

And how come that Uncle Sam has such a big nose? Big nosed people should protest.

[lookout123]

I thought it was Ted Kennedy.

[Shawnee123]

I'm not sure that's Uncle Sam. It's like Uncle Durante or something.

Skidamarink a dinky dink,
Skidamarink a doo

(my grandma used to sing that to me.)

[classicman]

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens. Consider the following:

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, and government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There have already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard, U.S. Border Patrol (RET), Arizona

Collected via e-mail, 2006
Link
and a copy of his testimony from 2002.

I think Mr. Stoddard makes some excellent points and rebukes a lot of the political banter from both sides.

[classicman]

BREWSTER, Wash. — The Obama administration has replaced immigration raids at factories and farms with a quieter enforcement strategy: sending federal agents to scour companies’ records for illegal immigrant workers.
While the sweeps of the past commonly led to the deportation of such workers, the “silent raids,” as employers call the audits, usually result in the workers being fired, but in many cases they are not deported.

Over the past year, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has conducted audits of employee files at more than 2,900 companies. The agency has levied a record $3 million in civil fines so far this year on businesses that hired unauthorized immigrants, according to official figures. Thousands of those workers have been fired, immigrant groups estimate.

Employers say the audits reach more companies than the work-site roundups of the administration of President George W. Bush. The audits force businesses to fire every suspected illegal immigrant on the payroll— not just those who happened to be on duty at the time of a raid — and make it much harder to hire other unauthorized workers as replacements. Auditing is “a far more effective enforcement tool,” said Mike Gempler, executive director of the Washington Growers League, which includes many worried fruit growers.

Immigration inspectors who pored over the records of one of those growers, Gebbers Farms, found evidence that more than 500 of its workers, mostly immigrants from Mexico, were in the country illegally. In December, Gebbers Farms, based in this Washington orchard town, fired the workers.

“Instead of hundreds of agents going after one company, now one agent can go after hundreds of companies,” said Mark K. Reed, president of Border Management Strategies, a consulting firm in Tucson that advises companies across the country on immigration law. “And there is no drama, no trauma, no families being torn apart, no handcuffs.”

President Obama, in a speech last week, explained a two-step immigration policy. He promised tough enforcement against illegal immigration, in workplaces and at the border, saying it would prepare the way for a legislative overhaul to give legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the country. White House officials say the enforcement is under way, but they acknowledge the overhaul is unlikely to happen this year.

In another shift, the immigration agency has moved away from bringing criminal charges against immigrant workers who lack legal status but have otherwise clean records.

Republican lawmakers say Mr. Obama is talking tough, but in practice is lightening up.

“Even if discovered, illegal aliens are allowed to walk free and seek employment elsewhere” said Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, the senior Republican on the Judiciary Committee. “This lax approach is particularly troubling,” he said, “at a time when so many American citizens are struggling to find jobs.”

Link

An interesting plan - The penalty for an illegal being employed here is to lose their job, but they are allowed to walk free and remain in the country ... now unemployed.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Well except for criminal element escaping the law at home, aren't all these illegals coming here for work? Make it harder to find work and you take away the incentive for coming. Not as dramatic as machine gunning them down in the streets, but maybe as effective.

BUT, the border still must be secured, because not all of the interlopers are poor peasants looking for honest employment.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by classicman

Link

An interesting plan - The penalty for an illegal being employed here is to lose their job, but they are allowed to walk free and remain in the country ... now unemployed.

But on the next page of that link: (italics and underlining are mine)

"Many immigrants purchased new false documents and went looking for jobs in more distant orchards, former Gebbers Farms workers said.
But the word is out among growers in the region to avoid hiring immigrants from the company because ICE knows they are unauthorized."

Also, I'm taken by the political irony of these two sequential paragraphs.

“Even if discovered, illegal aliens are allowed to walk free and seek employment elsewhere” said Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, the senior Republican on the Judiciary Committee. “This lax approach is particularly troubling,” he said, “at a time when so many American citizens are struggling to find jobs.”

"Employers say the Obama administration is leaving them short of labor for some low-wage work, conducting silent raids but offering no new legal immigrant laborers in occupations, like farm work, that Americans continue to shun despite the recession. Federal labor officials estimate that more than 60 percent of farm workers in the United States are illegal immigrants."

I agree it is an "interesting plan"... sort of setting it up so the problems solve themselves.

That is, as word spreads that illegal immigrants can't find work, they don't come here illegally.
And when businesses stop breaking our laws by hiring those "low wage workers", and maybe have to raise their wages/prices the legal immigrants and/or unemployed Americans can take jobs with a livable wage.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

That is, as word spreads that illegal immigrants can't find work, they don't come here illegally.

I would think that there would have to be a better opportunity wherever they came from. This includes more than just the wages.

And when businesses stop breaking our laws by hiring those "low wage workers", and maybe have to raise their wages/prices the legal immigrants and/or unemployed Americans can take jobs with a livable wage.

As the wages rises so will the incentive for the illegals.
I think its a good start and something that was long overdue. The last administration should have been doing the same type of thing.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by classicman

I would think that there would have to be a better opportunity wherever they came from. This includes more than just the wages.

As the wages rises so will the incentive for the illegals.
I think its a good start and something that was long overdue. The last administration should have been doing the same type of thing.

Amen