The Obamanation

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Here is the non-partisan opinion

We had expected this sort of turnaround and are bouyed by it, and it's part of the reason we voted for O. However, the story is weak at this time, and in order for the results of this to be a realistic comparison between the two presidencies, we need to wait at least 7 more years, probably longer.

We notice that Presidential favorable/unfavorable rates almost universally go down during a Presidency, and we should expect a similar result here as world events occur. For example, had the poll been taken this week, the number for Poland would be cut in half.

Sure....all of that is true. Much like it is far too soon to claim Obama, or any particular ongoing program, is a failure after 9 months.

Pew conducts its Global Attitudes survey ever couple of years to examine changing attitudes over time, so this was not something out of the blue.

Putting the Bush-Obama comparisons aside, the Pew poll simply reinforced what was widely known from other polls and other measures, that at the end of the Bush presidency, perceptions of the US and confidence in our president as a world leader were at the lowest point in our lifetime....there is no place to go but up.

There are better, more serious measures of the impact of foreign policy decisions and actions on world perceptions....like US intel.

The best example might be the 2006 NIE that concluded, among other things, that the Iraq actions - invasion/occupation/prisoner abuses - became a "cause celebre" for terrorist movements around the world and that wide-spread anti-US sentiments among Muslims, particularly after the invasion/occupation and both in Western Europe and in Muslim countries, was a breeding ground for terrorists exploitation.

The world was on our side on Sept 12, 2001 and in a matter of one year with the decision to invade Iraq, we began to loose that good will and it only got worse and worse as more actions were revealed....not just as a result of US policy, but also the harsh anti-Muslim rhetoric that still is highly visible among some (small) segments of the US population as well.

Oh, and I thought the Poles and Czechs were pretty much split down the middle on having US missile defense systems in their backyard...but leaning more to not having it.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sure....all of that is true.

The world was on our side on Sept 12, 2001 and in a matter of one year with the decision to invade Iraq, we began to loose that good will and it only got worse and worse as more actions were revealed....not just as a result of US policy, ~snip~

just so that lil tidbit of a disclaimer doesn't get lost.

Originally Posted by classicman

just so that lil tidbit of a disclaimer doesn't get lost.

Right.....as I said, it was also the harsh anti-Muslim rhetoric (and the disparaging ot the Muslim religion as a whole) that followed 9/11 and has continued unabated among a (small) segment of the extreme right....a particular turn off for moderate Muslims around the world.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

Right.....as I said, it was also the harsh anti-Muslim rhetoric (and the disparaging ot the Muslim religion as a whole) that followed 9/11 and has continued unabated among a (small) segment of the extreme right....a particular turn off for moderate Muslims around the world.

Got it. Keep painting the entirety of EITHER party with that BIG brush you got there.

Originally Posted by classicman

Got it. Keep painting the entirety of EITHER party with that BIG brush you got there.

WTF...what entirety? What part of SMALL segment dont you get?

How do you think it looks to moderate Muslims around the world when a member of Congress calls the first Muslim elected to Congress "un-American" for using the Koran at his swearing-in (Thomas Jefferson's Koran, btw)

http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/01...e-swearing-in/

(read some of the comments at the bottom).

Or would it help if I post some of the nasty anti-Muslim signs at the Tea Parties or anti-Muslim comments made on the air by Beck/Limbaugh?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Or would it help if I post some of the nasty anti-Muslim signs at the Tea Parties or anti-Muslim comments made on the air by Beck/Limbaugh?

Extremists like you continue to make the same mistake that Beck or Limbaugh in someway represent conservative political values. You are like a little kid who keeps sticking his hand in the pen of a rabid dog and getting bit.