What does government owe you?

[Flint]

Dude. I was ready for this to be an interesting thread. A thought that was triggered by something you read, a heart-felt response, an intellectual challenge placed against other members of this forum, to dare them to risk their political beliefs by answering a simple, pointed question, eloquently stated in such a way that would demand a rousing exchange of ideas.

Instead...just another goddamn clipboard dump that gets half a glance and zero responses. Seriously. You disappoint me.

At least ƒucking summarize the article--tell us what your thoughts were! Anything!

Pretend you're back in school, writing a paper. Form an idea, put it into words.

[richlevy]

I'm not saying we should begin putting 5 year olds on assembly lines. But I am saying is that no able-bodied person has any business receiving all of his or her income from the government because we are the government and we are paying for their laziness.

Well, at least she's a compassionate conservative. BTW, I've been paying into the system for 25 years. If I end up on unemployment or G-d forbid, disability, I'm not going to feel at all guilty about receiving it, any more than I would collecting on my car insurance if my car got totaled.

I agree we need more welfare to work. However, there is no way for some people to compete against illegal aliens for some jobs. If all of the service industries had to pay minimum wage, we would have enough jobs to get people off of welfare.

Right now we don't.

[ZenGum]

Recently, I asked a group of college students if they believed poor people in this country were owed anything from our government.

Initially, they said the government should provide for those who are less fortunate. However, when I stressed that the question wasn't whether the government should provide for them, but rather if the government owed poor people anything, the students' opinions changed.

Well, what this bit tells me is that people give different answers to different questions.

Should we provide for the less fortunate? Should we prevent starvation, homelessness, the poverty trap, and the Dickensian misery and petty crime that comes from having no other option? Most people will say, yes.

Should somebody who has the ability and opportunity to support themselves by selling their labour, instead be given a steady supply of obligation-free taxpayers' money so they can lead a life of laziness? Most people will say, no.

Asking, does the government "owe" poor people anything has connotations of unrequited obligation, which conjures up images like the second example. So people generally say, no.

It's an old and easy trick, to couch the question in terms that will support the answer you want, then interpret the answer as an impartial general response. Plenty of people do it, but there's no need to take the results seriously.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Ask not, what your country can do for you, ask what your country can do for me.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Well, what this bit tells me is that people give different answers to different questions.

No doubt about that.

Should we provide for the less fortunate? Should we prevent starvation, homelessness, the poverty trap, and the Dickensian misery and petty crime that comes from having no other option? Most people will say, yes.

Well there are certainly lots to think about by your response. And of course most likely no right answer. Who decides whom is less fortunate? So if I make 50k a year I think the person who makes 100k is rich. If I make 100k I think the person who makes 200k is rich. If I make $50 a week the guy down the street who make $200 a week is rich. Regardless of how each individual worked hard to get to that next level and achieve more or how much education one person got and how much they sacrificed to move up a little bit to do better for their own family. Starvation, homelessness, the poverty trap, situations which people convice you they have gone to because they are among the "have nots". None of these things are caused by single issues and none of them have simple solutions. So I say, it really depends.

Should somebody who has the ability and opportunity to support themselves by selling their labour, instead be given a steady supply of obligation-free taxpayers' money so they can lead a life of laziness? Most people will say, no.

I agree, but we have created generations of people who would disagree with you. They have been conditioned to think just the opposit.

Asking, does the government "owe" poor people anything has connotations of unrequited obligation, which conjures up images like the second example. So people generally say, no.

Maybe.

It's an old and easy trick, to couch the question in terms that will support the answer you want, then interpret the answer as an impartial general response. Plenty of people do it, but there's no need to take the results seriously.

None of this was intended as a trick.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Flint

Dude. I was ready for this to be an interesting thread. A thought that was triggered by something you read, a heart-felt response, an intellectual challenge placed against other members of this forum, to dare them to risk their political beliefs by answering a simple, pointed question, eloquently stated in such a way that would demand a rousing exchange of ideas.

Instead...just another goddamn clipboard dump that gets half a glance and zero responses. Seriously. You disappoint me.

At least ƒucking summarize the article--tell us what your thoughts were! Anything!

Pretend you're back in school, writing a paper. Form an idea, put it into words.

Geveryl Robinson is a frequent commentator in our local paper. I find her articles to be thought provoking and intellectual and they often provoke a lot of discussion based on their content alone. If you can't read them or see the content for what it is I guess you can just consider it a "clipboard dump". I believe the content stands on it’s own without comment from me at this point. I was more interested in what others thought about her position on the issue.

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I was more interested in what others thought about her position on the issue.

You must give to receive.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I was more interested in what others thought about her position on the issue.

If it's not worth your time to offer your opinion, why would it be worth mine?

I clicked on this thread with a genuine interest in hearing your opinion on the subject, so the disappointment is purely of my own making.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Flint

If it's not worth your time to offer your opinion, why would it be worth mine?

Ok, no problem.