AIG

This is exactly the kind of bitching and whining and partisan bullshit I'm talking about.

No constructive proposal...just more selective finger pointing.

I'm not suggesting Dodd doesnt bears much of the responsibility, but. come on, calling only for Dodd and Obama to return campaign contributions....reporting that Dodd used the funds for his presidential campaign....like they are the only responsible parties.

Let the people of Connecticut decide what to do about Dodd and move on and focus on solutions!

[classicman]

ok let me put it this way - How can we get past this and move forward with those responsible STILL in power? How else can we prevent this type of thing from happening again if those we entrust to do so ARE THE PROBLEM?

Short of impeachment....you (I mean the American public) get past it by focusing on solutions and holding them accountable or voting them out.

You dont get past it with partisan bullshit like Steve King's suggestions and misrepresentations in that article.

[classicman]

I only selected Dodd for my first example because there was an abundance of info readily available.
How exactly do you propose we hold those in power accountable at this point? It is obvious what transpired. Why can't something be done to rectify it?

Nothing can be done to rectify it because NO laws or even Senate rules were broken.

There is no simple way to hold them accountable....other than demanding that they focus on positive solutions rather than partisan bickering...and threaten to vote them out if they dont.

[classicman]

But but but ....

There are no easy answers....only hard decisions that need to be made that focus on solutions!

Saying NO to everything proposed...or deflecting the discussion to assign blame...wont get us very far.

[classicman]

I guess its time to call the term limits card then. These guys are not supposed to be career politicians. That is not how the system was designed.

The ridiculous abuses that take place, the money games, buyouts and payoffs and slimy deals have to stop. I think I need a vacation.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Capitalism is clearly broken, and I have a feeling at the G20 summit coming up, all hell is going to rain down on the priciple because we have not kept it in check, thanks to the greedy assholes at the top. Frankly, I HOPE we have to rethink the way our pay scale works in this country because of all of this. We are not going to be the leaders anymore if we don't. We aren't going to be able to push everyone around anymore. If this happens, we can thank Wall Street for bringing about the demise of capitalism. heh.

We were never capitalist to begin with. We are a mixed capitalist-socialist economy and have been for a while.

Capitalist theory is as idealistic as Communism.

[lookout123]

All theory is idealistic in that all theories work exceptionally well. The problem is that you have to plug people into the theory to see what will happen. True communism won't work because people, in general, will not put the needs of the many above their own personal needs/wants for long.

True capitalism doesn't work because there must be very real rules in place to keep the unscrupulous from raping society.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by lookout123

We're talking about the brokers. a.k.a. financial planners, advisors, shiny shoe whores. Brokers gather client assets, build financial plans, and invest according to those plans. ~snip

OK, thanks.

Myself, being part of the "you wouldn't understand" group, hears "broker" and thinks the guy that's licensed to buy and sell stocks or commodities for clients. Hollywood tells me they do call clients on their list and offer information (hot tips) on what appears to be opportunities; 1-out of the goodness of their hearts or 2-more trades equals more commissions.

I thought financial planners/advisers (third option intentionally omitted), were the ones that look at the whole financial position of their clients and recommend strategies to make their money grow safely. That might include a number of financial instruments other than just stocks and commodities the "brokers" sell.

Apparently Hollywood lied to me.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

They renamed them "retention awards" because they knew this was going to a problem.

While I share your outrage that Wall Street is maintaining their entitlement attitude, and MY money is being thrown around by the bushel to people that have been overpaid for years, I believe the original contracts were written as retention payments, and bonuses is a description the press substituted thinking very few people would know what retention bonuses are.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by lookout123

True capitalism doesn't work because there must be very real rules in place to keep the unscrupulous from raping society.

This is true. But what happens when the unscrupulous rapist of society turns out to be your brilliant chef? Maybe you should get rid of the chef as well.

That was flippancy. But on a serious note. Much as I agree with you about the logic of retaining those elements of the company that are profitmaking and most likely to be able to bring it back from the brink and into profitability again, those bonuses were not paid out of the profits they earned. You paid their bonus. And Sugar, and Classic and tw and every other American in this community. They have no right to bonuses on the public purse. They have a right, under the rescue package, to continue doing their job and earning a damn fine wage in the process. Something their victims should be so lucky on eh?

AIG could not afford to continue trading. AIG could not afford to pay staff bonuses. The government stepped in, because AIG was 'too big to fail'. Are we also saying AIG staff are too important to be allowed to lose their bonuses? As far as I can tell there are people all across America working low hours or taking pay cuts just to keep their jobs through the hurricane AIG started.

So, if they don't get their bonuses, paid this time by tax payers, they might just fuck off from the company and go it alone? How responsible of them. Not like those irresponsible blue collar workers with their damn unions holding employers to ransom and making unreasonable wage demands.

Frankly, the entire top tier of AIG needs a collective spanking so they know not to do it again. Why is the United States of America rewarding financial failure?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

We were never capitalist to begin with. We are a mixed capitalist-socialist economy and have been for a while.

Capitalist theory is as idealistic as Communism.

I know. I just said that because so many people in this country actually still believe it.

Something I heard this morning on Morning Joe that, if true, just boggles the mind. According to him (and I don't know where he got the information) EVERY MORTGAGE IN AMERICA could have been paid off with a cool 12.3 billion dollars. 12.3 BILLION. And now we've spent, what, a couple of trillion? And how much will it end up costing when this is all over? Jesus, if that is true, we have made some very, serious, mistakes. Since the crisis started with mortgages, maybe if we had done that, we could have slowed it enough to deal with it better, and it wouldn't have cost so much. Maybe if just did that now, we could stop having to inject so much money into these other things. How much did we give Fannie and Freddie? A lot more than that. Was it really necessary? Now I am wondering.

Redux, I think we need to stop with the spending on financial markets and start focusing on other things, like infrastructure, green technology and health care. We need a serious investigation into who the players were who were auctioning off our security while they got rich. Those people need to be prosecuted. Apparently, according to some reports I've seen, serious, outright fraud was going on, and so many people just looked the other way because they were making money. Even if those people didn't break the law, they were certainly complicit, and maybe those people should be barred from being in those kinds of jobs in the future. We need very strong regulations put back in place, stronger than what Geitner is calling for I believe, and we need to work out some kind of system where the people overseeing these industries do not have some kind of conflict of interest going on. The relationships between these people is too incestuous. And we need some kind of guidelines about executive pay.

We also need to bring back some of our manufacturing base. It's sickening to me how many people are whining about executives not getting their bonuses and Wagoner being fired and complaining about contracts being broken, but they think it's just fine the unions are having to make concessions and blue collar workers are having their contracts ripped up. The middle class is the backbone of America, but there is a very serious difference in how they being treated, as opposed to executives. Those who shower before work are being treated with kid gloves, when they are the ones responsible for this crisis, while those who shower after work are having their guts ripped out, and they had nothing to do with it. It really is not fair, at all. Our values are so misplaced it's scary.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

I guess its time to call the term limits card then. These guys are not supposed to be career politicians. That is not how the system was designed.

The ridiculous abuses that take place, the money games, buyouts and payoffs and slimy deals have to stop. I think I need a vacation.

I agree. The whole system is incestuous and corrupt. I think we need elections paid for with public funds that only last about 4 months, with weekly debates where everyone running gets to participate. Ads on TV are free, because the airwaves belong to the people, and everyone gets equal airtime. No more slanderous ads paid for by third parties, no more campaign contributions. Too much time is spent raising money for the next election, and average citizens don't get equal access to the people who are supposed to be representing them. I heard the other day that a new congressperson was told they had to start raising $90,000 a month in order to have enough money for their next election. That is ridiculously out of control.