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Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views |
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#1 |
Person who doesn't update the user title
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,674
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The people who cry "disaster disaster disaster" frankly don't impress me with their thinking. The "disaster" they seem to have in mind always seems to be better said as "a setback to the [il]liberal agenda." O'Reilly calls these people "Secular-Progressives," if you'd rather use that term, and reckons they don't got it. He makes a pretty solid case.
Item: refusal to pass gun control legislation -- good for the Republic, bad for increasing the chances of genocides, and for criminals generally. Gun rights are a most potent expression of human rights -- a right not to be murdered or robbed, a right not to suffer genocide. Fundamental, I should think. Item: demolition of undemocratic regimes, plural -- better for good government worldwide; the greatest part of human miseries stem from bad governance, as looking for correlations of bad national quality of life with undemocratic governance will show. On a related note, it's one option for making a better world that isn't taking in millions of illegal immigrants: make their home places better than they were, and where's the wrong in removing those human obstacles to that idea that invariably present themselves, with their guns, their goons, their clubs and gas? That we're about the best country around is evidenced by how many millions of people are literally breaking into the place to partake. About eleven million illegals these days. Item: not being buffaloed by environmentalist lobbies promotes efficient business by ensuring the cost of doing business is not so excessive it is no longer worthwhile -- that way lies European stagnation. Business is something humans do, and GWB understood that in his bones. Item: Federal-level government almost entirely engrossed in foreign policy reduced any temptation to meddle with domestic affairs, to the benefit of those affairs and of civil rights also, unlike his predecessor, who clearly viewed the Bill of Rights not as a guide to his behavior in office, but as a stumbling-block to his ambitions. His predecessor was never out of disgrace, couldn't do foreign policy (very scant legacy -- his lone foreign-policy success seems to have been handing the Balkans fighting over to Europe to settle), and had the DoJ completely suborned with Janet Reno. His predecessor got two terms, neither with my vote, I can tell you. Unlike his predecessor, your own civil rights have never been imperiled nor eroded with GWB, whatever the pretenses of the ravers have been. Look at what they say happens, then look at really does happen. This is why I'll defend GWB's record. Item: GWB kept me happy enough with him to vote for him twice. He did things I wanted done. This cannot be dismissed as just UG being crazy -- it's UG thinking better than most of the people who yell at him around here.
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Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. |
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#2 | |||||||
Professor
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: the edge of the abyss
Posts: 1,947
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#3 |
“Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Posts: 21,393
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Sorry honey. That was a Bush plan completely approved by a Democratcially dominated Congress. The Democrats approved it the first time as well but the Congress was controlled by the Rebublickins and Bush carried it out. You can't blame Bush for that one.
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Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012! |
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#4 |
Professor
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: the edge of the abyss
Posts: 1,947
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Some of them may have approved it for what it was supposed to be for, which in my understanding was to listen in on Americans who were suspected of terrorist associations on phone calls from other countries, but they completely misused it and simply spied on everyone and anyone. They were even listening in on personal phone calls our SOLDIERS were making from Iraq and Afghanistan to their wives and husbands. And you can't possibly believe Bush told them everything about how he was using it. He had the most secretive administration ever, and he thought he was above the law.
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#5 | ||
Radical Centrist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
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You'll be amazed at how much you believe is bullshit, if you just look for cites. I know I was, when I first tried to confirm what I knew. Quote:
Also, this is a logical riddle meant to win arguments, which is something less than a proof. "We believe the program was widely abused." "How do you know?" "Because Bush was secretive! We didn't hear anything, that means something was going on!" Ehh, I'll need a little more than that, personally. |
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#6 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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It was the NSA acting under an order by Bush through what most Constitutional scholars have said was an illegal interpretation of an AUMF.
IMO, the "leaker" who gave no details that threatened national security, should be applauded. (pardon the echo chamber) |
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#7 |
“Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Posts: 21,393
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I disagree and it was not what most constitutional scholars stated, it was only those that agree with that notion. Never the less it was a leak for a political agenda. That person should be punished.
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Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012! |
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#8 | ||
Professor
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: the edge of the abyss
Posts: 1,947
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677#28781200 There are a couple of interviews there. Just click on them. and this has been all over the news. Do you not watch the news? Quote:
Why do you keep asking me to cite things? Do you think I'm just making stuff up? |
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#9 |
still says videotape
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
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Somebody grab the butterfly net!
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If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis |
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#10 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Bush did it unilaterally, using the congresionally approved Authorization of Use of Military Force (AUMF) as a legal justification. An AUMF authorizes military force...NOT NSA wiretapping. Gonzales lied to Congress about it and Bush as much as acknowledged that there was no Congressional approval, which was why he called for a new and expanded FISA bill after the abuses became public. they did go along with the amended FISA (Protect America Act) in 07, but were instrumental in including greater Congressional oversight and far greater limitations on wiretapping American citizens. I had to come back here to correct the revisionist history ![]() Last edited by Redux; 02-01-2009 at 09:51 AM. |
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#11 | |
“Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo”
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Savannah, Georgia
Posts: 21,393
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Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012! |
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#12 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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And I was disappointed in the Democratic caving on the telecomm immunity, but pleased that at least the new FISA has more oversight and limitations. |
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