Any comments about Mr Madoff? - Page 10

Pico and ME · 03-12-2009, 01:33 PM

lol.

classicman · 03-12-2009, 02:53 PM

Should I have put a smilie on that Pie?

Pie · 03-12-2009, 03:04 PM

No. It's still a little too close to the bone for me to take it as a joke.
But to quote you -- "Hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine."

classicman · 03-12-2009, 03:38 PM

Well it was intended as a joke.

Clodfobble · 03-12-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I too hope they investigate AND prosecute all of them. Perhaps seize their assets as well and put it towards those who were wronged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I agree glatt, I think he is trying to protect his family and whomever. Sickens me that he is basically gonna get away with it.

But... but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

Hypothetically speaking, if Madoff's kids weren't involved with defrauding billions from investors, but they clearly benefited financially, are they guilty of anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

No

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

What if they don't return the money once they find out about the fraud? Are they guilty then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

No

WTF? Please explain.

classicman · 03-12-2009, 06:23 PM

Try this

Clodfobble · 03-12-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

Guilt to me acknowledges some culpability and/or responsibility. As the questions were worded, I had to answer them the way I did. I have no control over another person.

There is a difference between guilt or remorse and empathy. If someone was wronged by my great grandfather, for example, thats on him not me. What could I have done about it? I wasn't there I wasn't born yet. I feel no responsibility for the actions of someone else, what difference does it make if they were/are a distant relative or a complete stranger? If my cousin kills someone, should I go to jail?

Just making sure I understand... So your desire to see his wife/children prosecuted stems entirely from the hypothesis that they are also guilty? And their guilt rests entirely on whether they *knew* Madoff was doing illegal things, not necessarily participating in the business? And then based on that, you would support confiscating "their assets as well" (say, his wife's salary from some unrelated job) because they are guilty to begin with so their punishment can be in any form?

So if I steal a million dollars, and just walk up and give it to a stranger on the street, that stranger doesn't have to return it?

classicman · 03-12-2009, 09:20 PM

If someone was knowingly doing something illegal, yes. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to punish everyone who worked there? As far as confiscating the wife's salary from another job or other unrelated sources.... I dunno how to figure all that out. Thats a little beyond me. I guess if we could say that she is responsible for x dollars illegally then she should surrender that same amount. Could/should we add a punitive amount on top of that??? I don't know how to calculate all of it. What do you think?

tw · 03-15-2009, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

If someone was knowingly doing something illegal, yes. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to punish everyone who worked there?

The recipient is held partially responsible for knowing that profits / money are not from ill-gotten enterprises. It’s not fair. It’s legal. But the family could never have been that ignorant.

If you see a crime and don't report it, then you are an accessory to that crime. Can also be and should be prosecuted.

I turned the knob and someone screamed in pain. But I was told to turn the knob. Therefore I was not responsible for killing him. Conservatives don't like this requirement for responsible actions. Being responsible (and regulations that require it) would infringe on my god given freedoms.

ZenGum · 03-13-2009, 12:08 AM

Person A owns a car.
Person B steals it and sells it to person C, who does not know it is stolen.

Dunno about you lot, but down here, C is not guilty of any crime, but must give the car back to A.
General principle: you can't keep stolen stuff even if you didn't know it was stolen when you got it.

So for the Madoff family, they should be stipped of all assets that the didn't earn themselves. IMHO YMMV etc...

xoxoxoBruce · 03-13-2009, 01:04 AM

The whole family were officers in Madoff's operation. It's impossible for them not to have known.

sugarpop · 03-13-2009, 12:25 PM

The bottom line is this, his family is living off money he stole from other people. Regardless of wether they were complicit in that theft, they should still have to return the money. Why should they get to keep it when there are people out there who literally lost EVERYTHING? shit, he even bankrupted some charities, did he not?

Queen of the Ryche · 03-13-2009, 01:00 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/200...he_metr-1.html

classicman · 03-13-2009, 01:10 PM

So are the families of all the employees at the company and and and...

classicman · 03-15-2009, 10:59 AM

How does what you said differ from my post? Aside from the fact that it took you three paragraphs to answer a closed ended question?

03-12-2009, 02:53 PM	#2
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Should I have put a smilie on that Pie? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-12-2009, 03:04 PM	#3
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	No. It's still a little too close to the bone for me to take it as a joke. But to quote you -- "Hey, my views aren't popular, they're just mine." __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

03-12-2009, 03:38 PM	#4
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Well it was intended as a joke. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-12-2009, 06:23 PM	#6
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Try this __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-12-2009, 09:20 PM	#8
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	If someone was knowingly doing something illegal, yes. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to punish everyone who worked there? As far as confiscating the wife's salary from another job or other unrelated sources.... I dunno how to figure all that out. Thats a little beyond me. I guess if we could say that she is responsible for x dollars illegally then she should surrender that same amount. Could/should we add a punitive amount on top of that??? I don't know how to calculate all of it. What do you think? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-12-2009, 01:33 PM	#1
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	lol.

03-13-2009, 12:08 AM	#10
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Person A owns a car. Person B steals it and sells it to person C, who does not know it is stolen. Dunno about you lot, but down here, C is not guilty of any crime, but must give the car back to A. General principle: you can't keep stolen stuff even if you didn't know it was stolen when you got it. So for the Madoff family, they should be stipped of all assets that the didn't earn themselves. IMHO YMMV etc... __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

03-13-2009, 01:04 AM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	The whole family were officers in Madoff's operation. It's impossible for them not to have known. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-13-2009, 12:25 PM	#12
sugarpop Professor Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: the edge of the abyss Posts: 1,947	The bottom line is this, his family is living off money he stole from other people. Regardless of wether they were complicit in that theft, they should still have to return the money. Why should they get to keep it when there are people out there who literally lost EVERYTHING? shit, he even bankrupted some charities, did he not?

03-13-2009, 01:00 PM	#13
Queen of the Ryche is fleeing the scene Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Beautiful CO Posts: 1,510	Welcome Home Bernie http://www.nydailynews.com/money/200...he_metr-1.html __________________ Once, in an interview, Chuck Norris admitted that he was not the most awesome thing ever. He declined to elaborate; but I believe we all know that he was referring to the existence of chocolate covered bacon. I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

03-13-2009, 01:10 PM	#14
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	So are the families of all the employees at the company and and and... __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-15-2009, 10:59 AM	#15
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	How does what you said differ from my post? Aside from the fact that it took you three paragraphs to answer a closed ended question? __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

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