Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

What we have here is an Administration and Congress that is pushing an ideology, ideas, and a play to solidify political power cloaked in supposed good intentions at the expense of the science, facts, and fiscal responsibility.

[classicman]

It's Bush's fault - The R's did nothing when they had control and people are pissed. They want it and now the D's have to figure out how to give it to them.
Whether it costs a shitload or not is a whole nother story.
BTW - How many illegals will be covered under whatever new plan is developed and at what cost? I've heard partisan crap on it, but don't want to go that route. Still I'm curious.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by classicman

BTW - How many illegals will be covered under whatever new plan is developed and at what cost? I've heard partisan crap on it, but don't want to go that route. Still I'm curious.

My guess: however many can get and keep fake social security numbers.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

My guess: however many can get and keep fake social security numbers.

Would they have to? I have no idea how all that works. I'm a natural born citizen and have no experience in the illegality of who what & how all that happens.

[Happy Monkey]

An amusing argument from someone scared of rationing:

People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Hopefully, Hawking will never move to the U.K. - they'd kill him!

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Hopefully, Hawking will never move to the U.K. - they'd kill him!

Not on purpose... but accidents do happen. 1, 2, 3, 4

[TheMercenary]

Now where have I heard this before.... hmmmmmmm....

In a Tight Spot, Pelosi Calls Health Care Critics 'Un-American'

Pushing her agenda and attempting to demonize the oppostion. A play right out of the Republickin's book. Say hello to the Nazi Pelosi...

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Pushing her agenda and attempting to demonize the oppostion. A play right out of the Republickin's book. Say hello to the Nazi Pelosi...

She may have a less cynical view of America. I'd like to agree with her that shouting out a town hall meeting to make sure nobody gets heard is unamerican, or that pretending that living wills are death panels is uinamerican, but I'm not sure I can.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

She may have a less cynical view of America. I'd like to agree with her that shouting out a town hall meeting to make sure nobody gets heard is unamerican, or that pretending that living wills are death panels is uinamerican, but I'm not sure I can.

Eh... no different than how all the Demoncratic supporters acted when Bush was in office. Hell, they could just do the same thing they did and close their town hall meetings to invitation only with pre-printed signs supporting what ever it was they were talking about. It does not change the fact that a large percentage of people are very concerned with the changes Congress is Rahming through on this health plan.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

. Hell, they could just do the same thing they did and close their town hall meetings to invitation only with pre-printed signs supporting what ever it was they were talking about.

So I guess we'll never know whether Democratic supporters would have behaved the same.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

So I guess we'll never know whether Democratic supporters would have behaved the same.

Yea, well if you support something why would you feel a need to protest against it? Do we really know what the individuals who are protesting party affiliation? Or is that an assumption?

Like I said we saw the same thing when people protested again the Repubs but they just controlled the environment better. Which of you were the ones saying that protest IS the democratic way, right, and responsiblity of all Americans?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Now where have I heard this before.... hmmmmmmm....

In a Tight Spot, Pelosi Calls Health Care Critics 'Un-American'

Pushing her agenda and attempting to demonize the oppostion. A play right out of the Republickin's book. Say hello to the Nazi Pelosi...

I would suggest that the demonizing is on the side that has been saying that the Obama and/or various Congressional plans:

- are like a single payer European or socialist style program

- will ration health care and put personal health care decisions in the hands of government bureaucrats

- mandate government funded abortion on demand

- will give the government total unfettered access to personal medical records

- and still the best...provide for death panels or forced euthanasia.

I particularly like how Sarah Palin described it:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I would suggest that the demonizing is on the side that has been saying that the Obama and/or various Congressional plans:
are like a single payer European or socialist style program

Not yet, but that is the long term goal.

- will ration health care and put personal health care decisions in the hands of government bureaucrats

Already occurs with all government run and private health insurance programs.

- mandate government funded abortion on demand

Yea, I haven't seen that in the currently proposed bill. But I don't really care that much about the issue.

- will give the government total unfettered access to personal medical records

Actually the current Bill is unclear because it does command "Reporting". It does not say what information will be excluded. I suspect HIPPA will prevent most PII from being transmitted.

- and still the best...provide for death squads or forced euthanasia.

Yea, I don't think most people believe that one.

I particularly like how Sarah Palin described it:

Palin is not the spokes person for the majority of people who oppose the Congressional plan to Rahm this bill through to approval.

[classicman]

I heard this am that almost 10 million of the uninsured in America are not Americans at all. I believe it was about 20% of the total number uninsured. I dunno how I feel about this. I don't even know if this is a true statement. That does seem like a large percentage though.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by classicman

I heard this am that almost 10 million of the uninsured in America are not Americans at all. I believe it was about 20% of the total number uninsured. I dunno how I feel about this. I don't even know if this is a true statement. That does seem like a large percentage though.

There is a huge disparity in the numbers reported. Since your mother and father could both be illegal aliens but because momma got across the border before she birthed her child the child is technically not counted by many as "illegal". This is a common event.

Here is a study of the issue.

http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7451-04.pdf