There are no illegal immigrants in America

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

My 4 years makes me as much of a veteran as someone with 30 years and I'm certainly better educated, more honest, more patriotic, and have more integrity than you or a million more like you combined.

I certainly can judge those who support violating the U.S. Constitution and who have lied when they took an oath to the American people like you.

I've destroyed your laughable attempts to claim immigration laws are valid and I've shown that you are nothing more than an annoying little turd.

You are certainly as much a Veteran. But that is about it. Your four years of service give you no ability to judge people over an internet forum because they disagree with your fantasy world and how you interpret the Constitutional authority of Congress. Illegal aliens are a tumor on society that needs to be controlled and excised. You have posted no evidence that you hold advanced degrees in law or any other area of expertise that would strengthen your argument. You have posted no factual objective data to support your arguments that Congress has no authority. Again you fail...

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Do you have any response to this Radar or are you going to just continue the pissing contest with merc?

There was really nothing to respond to. My thread isn't about whether or not government SHOULD have the power to make immigration laws.

I'm stating the FACT that it DOES NOT have any Constitutional authority to create or enforce them right now.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Do you have any response to this Radar or are you going to just continue the pissing contest with merc?

He can't because he can't support any of those thoughts with facts.

[TheMercenary]

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You are certainly as much a Veteran. But that is about it. Your four years of service give you no ability to judge people over an internet forum because they disagree with your fantasy world and how you interpret the Constitutional authority of Congress. Illegal aliens are a tumor on society that needs to be controlled and excised. You have posted no evidence that you hold advanced degrees in law or any other area of expertise that would strengthen your argument. You have posted no factual objective data to support your arguments that Congress has no authority. Again you fail...

My veteran status does not give me the ability to judge pathological liars and morons like you on the internet, but my many years as a Constitutional scholar and my superior education certainly does. One does not need a degree in law to read the simple English in the Constitution.

I've posted objective, factual, indisputable facts that the U.S. Government has absolutely zero authority to create or enforce immigration laws. Specifically I posted the 10th amendment which states that all things not listed in the Constitution are powers of the states or rights of the people and I proved that immigration is not listed and thwarted a few laughable attempts to stretch the Constitution by misusing the parts that allow government to repel invading hostile forces, the importation and migration of slaves, the ability of Congress to make rules concerning naturalization (not immigration), and the necessary and proper clause.

My argument doesn't need strengthening. It is air-tight, factual, and indisputable.

I've proven you to be nothing but a laughably stupid, racist, pathologically lying, asshole. You, and your moronic ilk, are more of a cancer to America than every undocumented immigrant to ever come to America.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Radar

My veteran status does not give me the ability to judge pathological liars and morons like you on the internet, but my many years as a Constitutional scholar and my superior education certainly does. One does not need a degree in law to read the simple English in the Constitution.

I've posted objective, factual, indisputable facts that the U.S. Government has absolutely zero authority to create or enforce immigration laws. Specifically I posted the 10th amendment which states that all things not listed in the Constitution are powers of the states or rights of the people and I proved that immigration is not listed and thwarted a few laughable attempts to stretch the Constitution by misusing the parts that allow government to repel invading hostile forces, the importation and migration of slaves, the ability of Congress to make rules concerning naturalization (not immigration), and the necessary and proper clause.

My argument doesn't need strengthening. It is air-tight, factual, and indisputable.

I've proven you to be nothing but a laughably stupid, racist, pathologically lying, asshole. You, and your moronic ilk, are more of a cancer to America than every undocumented immigrant to ever come to America.

You loze again... failed to provide objective facts other than your rants. Is tw your twin brother?

[TheMercenary]

More facts about the Illegal aliens and their effects on our economy:

"Impact of Mexican
Immigration on Public Coffers

So far, this report has generally concentrated on public service use by Mexican immigrants; however, this is only half of the fiscal equation. Immigrants also pay taxes to federal, state, and local governments. The CPS contains estimated federal income tax liabilities for those in the sample. These estimates are based on adjusted gross income, number of dependents, and other tax characteristics. These estimates are useful because they can provide some insight into the likely tax payments made by immigrants and natives. Because of their much lower incomes and their larger family size, Mexican immigrants pay dramatically less in federal income taxes than do natives. The March 2000 CPS indicates that in 1999, the average federal income tax payment by households headed by Mexican immigrants was $2,156, less than one third of the $7,255 average tax contribution made by native households. By design, the federal income tax system is supposed to tax those with higher income and fewer dependents at higher rates than those with lower income and more dependents. So the much lower income tax contributions of Mexican immigrants simply reflect the tax code and not some systematic attempt by Mexican immigrants to avoid paying taxes.

In 1999, 74 percent of households headed by natives had to pay at least some federal income tax, compared to only 59 percent of Mexican immigrant households. Even if one confines the analysis to legal Mexican immigrants, the gap between their tax contributions and those of natives remains large. Using the same method as before to distinguish legal and illegal Mexican immigrant households, the estimated federal income liability of households headed by legal Mexican immigrants in 1999 was $2,538. Thus, the very low tax contribution of Mexican immigrants is not simply or even mostly a function of legal status, but rather reflects their much lower incomes and larger average family size.

The much lower tax payments made by Mexican immigrants point to a fundamental problem associated with unskilled immigration that seems unavoidable. Even if Mexican Immigrants’ use of public services were roughly equal to natives, there would still be a significant drain on public coffers because their average tax payments would be much lower. While much of the fiscal concern centers on use of means-tested programs, clearly tax payments matter at least as much when evaluating the fiscal impact of Mexican immigration. Changing welfare eligibility or other efforts designed to reduce immigrant use of public services will not change the fact that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes than natives.

While the above analysis provides some insight into the impact of Mexican immigrants on tax receipts at the federal level, it does not show the total fiscal impact of Mexican immigration. Over the last decade, a number of studies have attempted to estimate the total fiscal impact (tax payments minus services used) of immigrants on the United States at the federal, state, and local levels.

The most comprehensive research on this subject was done by the National Research Council (NRC), which is part of the National Academy of Sciences. The study, conducted in 1997, found that more-educated immigrants tend to have higher earnings, lower rates of public service use, and as a result pay more in taxes than they use in services. In contrast, the NRC found that because of their lower incomes and resulting lower tax payments coupled with their heavy use of public services, less-educated immigrants use significantly more in services than they pay in taxes. The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000. In contrast, the average immigrant with more than a high school education was found to have a positive fiscal impact of $105,000 in his or her lifetime. The NAS further estimated that the total combined fiscal impact of the average immigrant (all educational categories included) was a negative $3,000. Thus, when all immigrants are examined they are found to have a modest negative impact on public coffers. These figures are only for the original immigrant, they do not include public services used or taxes paid by their U.S.-born descendants.

Using the fiscal analysis developed by the NRC, it is possible to roughly estimate the fiscal effect of adult Mexican immigrants on the United States. Applying the NRC’s estimates by educational attainment and age is possible because the NRC’s research is based on the same data as this study — the March Current Population Survey.28 Using the estimates developed by the NRC and based on the educational attainment and age of newly arrived adult Mexican immigrants in 2000, we find that the lifetime fiscal burden created by the average adult Mexican immigrant is $50,300.29 It should be pointed out that these figures were based on 1996 dollars. Adjusted for inflation, the fiscal burden would be $55,200 in 2000.

Since a very large share of Mexican immigrants have little formal education, the fiscal burden they create seems unavoidable. The modern American labor market offers very limited opportunities for the unskilled — immigrant or native. It therefore should come as no surprise that they use a great deal more in public services than they pay in taxes during the course of their lives. While consistent with previous research as well as common sense, the large fiscal deficit created by Mexican immigration should sound a cautionary note to those who argue that there is no harm in allowing large numbers of unskilled workers from Mexico into the country. Even if employers wish to have access to unskilled immigrant labor, the cost to taxpayers indicates that for the nation this may not be wise. Mexican immigration becomes, in effect, a subsidy for employers of unskilled labor, with taxpayers providing services such as education, health insurance and medical care, and income-transfer programs such as the Earned Income Tax Credit to workers who, because of their low incomes, pay nowhere near enough in taxes to cover their consumption of services."

http://www.illegalaliens.us/economics.htm

[Radar]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You loze again... failed to provide objective facts other than your rants. Is tw your twin brother?

I have provided objective facts many times over.

Objective and Verifiable Fact: The 10th amendment PROHIBITS the federal government from legislating or taking part in anything not specifically enumerated in the Constitution and RESERVES everything not listed in the Constitution as a power of the states or a right of the people.


Objective and Verifiable Fact: No part of the U.S. Constitution mentions immigration as one of the powers of the federal government.

End of story. Nothing you say matters beyond this. No mention of the many unconstitutional federal immigration laws matters. No mention of U.S. Code, or court cases, or unconstitutional government departments like ICE matters. No law, court decision, or branch of government matters because they are all below the U.S. Constitution.

So once again, we see what you really are...

[TheMercenary]

More on the negative effects of illegal aliens on our economy...

An excerpt follows:

"Business interests however are short-term. Easy immediate access to labour will always be preferred to the costs of training and capital investment for the longer term. In the nature of economic cycles, yesterday’s essential labour can often become, as the defunct factories and mills of Europe have shown, today’s unemployed. Employers who demanded immigrant labour are not held to account for this or required to contribute to subsequent costs of their unemployed former workers. Few things are more permanent that temporary worker from a poor country. If business were made responsible for the lifetime costs of their migrant labour in the same way as they must now deal with the lifetime environmental costs of their products, perhaps enthusiasm for labour migration might be moderated and make way for longer-term investment in capital-intensive restructuring."

Continues:
http://www.populationenvironmentrese...nmigration.pdf

[TheMercenary]

Mass Immigration Cost American Taxpayers $69 Billion Net and 2 Million Jobs
Study by Dr. Donald Huddle Reports Legal Immigration of over 1 Million Per Year Accounts for over 62% of Costs
State Costs to Taxpayers are Also Soaring (1996 Net Costs % up from 1992):

California: $28 billion up 35%

New York: $14 billion up 29%

Texas: $7 billion up 37%

Florida: $6 billion up 77%

The first study of the net cost of immigration to American taxpayers in 1997 conducted by Dr. Donald Huddle, Professor Emeritus of Economics at Rice University, found that:

The nearly 26 million legal and illegal immigrants settling in the United States since 1970 cost taxpayers a net $69 billion in 1997 alone, in excess of taxes those immigrants paid. This represents a cost of $260 in additional taxes paid by each U.S. resident or $1,030 in additional taxes paid by each family of four. This cost is a substantial increase over the net immigration costs of $65 billion ins 1996, $51 billion ins 1994, $44 billion in 1993, and $43 billion in 1992.

Over 62% of the net national cost of immigration in 1996, $40.6 billion, was attributable to legal and legalized (amnesty) immigrants. Illegal immigration generates about 38%, $24 billion of the total net cost. Legal immigration levels are over one million per year, and rising.

During 1996, approximately 2.3 million predominantly low-skill American workers were displaced from their jobs due to the continued heavy influx of immigrant workers since 1970. Taxpayers paid more than $15.2 billion in public assistance for those displaced workers in 1996, including Medicaid, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), unemployment compensation, and food stamps.

A net deficit of $8.5 billion dollars to the Social Security system in 1996 is attributable to the economic impact of the foreign-born population. Continued mass immigration threatens the solvency of the Social Security system.

Net cumulative costs for the 1998-2007 decade are projected to reach $932 billion, an average of $93.2 billion per year, even with recent changes in welfare and immigration policies and a prosperous economy, if current mass immigration trends are allowed to continue.

Breakdown for 1997 Costs of Legal Immigration
Public Schools (Primary, Secondary, Higher, etc) $22.5 billion

Bilingual Education, ESOL, ESL Education $ 3.3 billion

Medicaid $12.8 billion

AFDC (for legal and illegal immigrant's offspring) $ 2.4 billion

Social Security $24.8 billion

Supplemental Security Income $ 2.9 billion

Housing Assistance $ 2.6 billion

Criminal Justice $ 2.6 billion

Jobs Lost by Americans $10.8 billion

Other Programs $51.4 billion

1997 Total Costs for LEGAL Immigration: $136 billion

Add 1997 total costs for illegal immigration of $41 billion and subtract an estimated $108 billion in taxes paid by all immigrants (legal and illegal) in 1997 to obtain the overall net figure of $69 billion charged to you, and other American taxpayers.

Other key facts regarding immigration are:

1.) If current immigration trends continue, the current U.S. population of

274 million will nearly double to over 500,000,000 by 2050. (The U.S. was 135 million at the end of WWII.)

2.) Harvard Professor George Borjas demonstrated that mass immigration costs American workers $133 billion per year in wage depression and job loss.

3.) The prestigious National Research Council found at the state and local levels (which bear most of the burden for K-12 education) the net fiscal burden of the average immigrant-headed household (i.e., after subtracting state and local taxes the household paid) was:

$1,484 per immigrant-headed household in New Jersey (in the 1989-1990 fiscal year); and $3,463 in California (in 1994-1995)(p. 276-277)

Why should we continue to allow our own working poor, homeless, and unemployed to continue to suffer from the job loss, wage depression, and other burdens imposed by mass immigration?

http://www.carryingcapacity.org/huddlenr.html

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Radar

There was really nothing to respond to. My thread isn't about whether or not government SHOULD have the power to make immigration laws.

I'm stating the FACT that it DOES NOT have any Constitutional authority to create or enforce them right now.

Right, so you didn't want to discuss it? You just went in with your view and wanted to shove it down everyone else's throat? You just want people to acknowledge that your way of thinking is right?

My question was, what if your way is right? What then?

If you don't want to answer that question, then it proves my first statement because you're not interested in discussing anything other than your point of view which you've made clear you're not going to change.

So, if we work on the assumption that you're correct what then? Do you have a response? Have you thought beyond your own views at all?

[Radar]

The Truth about Undocumented Immigration



Undocumented Immigrants Effect on Social Security

• Undocumented immigrants compose about three percent of the total US population. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso)
  
• The estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the Social Security system with a subsidy of about $7 billion a year. (The New York Times)
  
• Immigrants contribute billions of dollars annually but receive no public pension in retirement, are not eligible for Medicare, and are not entitled to any other benefits. (Social Security Administration)
  
• Most undocumented workers pay taxes, and they pay a variety of taxes. (The New York Times)
  
• The money that undocumented immigrants paid in 2004 added up to about 10 percent of that year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it pays in pension benefits. (Social Security Administration)
  
• The money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections. (Social Security Administration)
  
• After the 1986 passage of the Immigration Reform and Control Act, the Social Security Administration began receiving mountains of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect or fake Social Security numbers, and placed them in the "earnings suspense file." Since then, the file has grown, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes. (Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago)
  
• Many older workers return home to Latin America when they reach retirement age. (BusinessWeek)

The Healthcare System and Undocumented Immigrants

• Immigrants are not swamping the U.S. health care system and use it far less than native-born Americans. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Immigrants accounted for 10.4 percent of the U.S. population but only 7.9 percent of total health spending and 8 percent of government health spending. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Thirty percent of immigrants use no health care at all during the course of a year. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Immigrant children spent or cost $270 a year, compared to $1,059 for native-born children. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Most immigrants have health insurance. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• In reality, if more restrictions were placed on health care for immigrants, very little money would be saved, and many immigrant children would be put at grave risk. Many immigrant children already fail to get regular checkups, and as a result, more end up needing emergency care, or get no care at all. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Many immigrants actually help to subsidize health care and social security for the rest the country. (Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University)
  
• Immigrants pay taxes -- including Medicare payroll taxes -- and most pay health insurance premiums, but they receive only half as much care as other families. (The American Journal of Public Health)

Economic Impact of Undocumented Immigrants

• Undocumented immigrants have become a new source of economic growth as giant U.S. consumer companies like banks, insurers, mortgage lenders, credit-card outfits, phone carriers, and others aggressively market to over 11 million undocumented customers. (BusinessWeek)
  
• Undocumented immigrants add 600,000 to 700,000 new consumers to the economy every year. (Pew Research Center)
  
• 84% of undocumented immigrants are 18-to-44-year-olds, in their prime spending years, vs. 60% of legal residents. (BusinessWeek)
  
• Allowing immigrants financial privileges boosts corporate profits because it enables them to move out of the cash economy, put their money in banks, and take out credit cards, car loans, and home mortgages. U.S. gross national product also surges because consumers with credit can spend more than those limited to cash. (BusinessWeek)
  
• When more undocumented immigrants pay income and property taxes, they help ease the tax burden for others when it comes to paying for schools, health care, roads, and other services immigrants use. (BusinessWeek)
  
• Letting the undocumented save and invest, could also result in a decline in crime because if immigrants are allowed to protect their money in banks, the rate of hold ups and robberies in Latino or immigrant neighborhoods drop. (Austin Police Department)
  
• Immigrants benefit the economy more than they take away in social services. (National Academy of the Sciences)
  
• In 2004, Arizona suffered severe labor shortages and huge quantities of lettuce went unpicked because growers lacked pickers. In 2005, the Central Valley in California had 70,000 to 80,000 labor positions that were unfilled. Legalizing workers would alleviate such labor shortages. (Benjamin Powell, economist at the Independent Institute)
  
• Immigrants are one of the main labor sources for the rebuilding and clean-up effort in post-Katrina Louisiana and Mississippi. (NewAmericanMedia.org)
  
• As much as half of all U.S. retail banking growth is expected to come from new immigrants over the next decade. (The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp)
  
• Hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrant households earn enough to qualify for $95,000 mortgages. (National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals)
  
• ITIN and conventional mortgages taken out by undocumented could be worth as much as $60 billion over the next five years. (National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals) Undocumented immigrants now comprise fully half of all farm laborers, up from 12% in 1990. (US Department of Labor)
  
• Undocumented immigrants are 25% of workers in the meat and poultry industry, 24% of dishwashers, and 27% of drywall and ceiling tile installers. (The Pew Research Center)
  
• The overall proportion of unauthorized workers in the labor force is 4.3%. Employers from many sectors of the US economy employ unauthorized immigrants – including enormous amounts of private US households. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso)
  
• The estimated population growth rate in Mexico is declining rapidly and may soon be slower than that in the US. (United Nations)
  
• Immigrants benefit the United States economy but their potential remains hindered by current laws. They do not deplete government resources, as is widely believed. (Benjamin Powell, economist at the Independent Institute)
  
• Undocumented add at least $22 billion, in total, to the economy each year, and legalizing their status would increase that amount. (Benjamin Powell, economist at the Independent Institute).

National Security and the Undocumented

• None of the 9/11 terrorists entered the country via the US/Mexico border. In fact, the US is most vulnerable at its ports of entry, including ship ports, airports, and land ports. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).
  
• It is not easy to immigrate to the US legally as it often takes decades before an individual can obtain many kinds of legal immigrant visas. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).
  
• Working with Mexico is central to the future of controlling the US border. Through cooperation with Mexico, the US will be able to isolate criminals, publicize rules, and identify forms of Mexican identification. (Peter Laufer, former NBC new correspondent).
  
• Enhanced border enforcement only increases the number of deaths of men, women, and children at the border annually. Areas with heavy border security see up to 100 additional deaths a year. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).
  
• While heavy border does not stop the volume of unauthorized border crossing, it does increase the costs and risks of coming to the US, including death, injury, and the use of smugglers. It also reduces the number of back and forth trips, forcing undocumented immigrants to stay longer. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).

[TheMercenary]

Post your citation please so we can examine where it comes from and where they gather their facts from. Thanks.

[Radar]

Why should I? So you can attack the source?

[Aliantha]

It's from here

Possibly biased