Politics ad absurdam

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Heh -- and yet still you type.

Well, so do I. Heh twice.

What I'm learning is that we type less in hope of persuasion than of staking our respective positions out. You could call it advertising.

Meanwhile, elucidate. If you actually have a good idea here, I'd be pleased to accept it; that's what I do, whatever appearances may say. If you don't have a good idea... well, we can predict how that will come out.

Why don't Europeans just make it illegal to speak from the Koran, wear a turban, or anything that "seems" like it is "Islamofascists"?
Isn't that how they handle this kind of thing? S-what they did with the BNP, skins and the like, right.
Just limit their speech.
Same thing.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

As a libertarian, I am as you can readily see an antisocialist.

This would be fine if you didn't limit yourself to only looking to the left for threats to your freedom.

What do you call someone who only looks one way before crossing the street? Roadkill.

[DanaC]

Why don't Europeans just make it illegal to speak from the Koran, wear a turban, or anything that "seems" like it is "Islamofascists"?
Isn't that how they handle this kind of thing? S-what they did with the BNP, skins and the like, right.
Just limit their speech.
Same thing.

Europeans or British? The BNP are a solely British affair. Even with Euro-wide agreements, the laws are actually very different from one European nation to another.


From BBC

European interior ministers have agreed to make incitement to racism an EU-wide crime, but have stopped short of a blanket ban on Holocaust denial.
The agreement makes it an offence to condone or grossly trivialise crimes of genocide - but only if the effect is incitement to violence or hatred.

The deal follows six years of talks, and will disappoint Germany, which pushed hard for a Holocaust-denial law.

Berlin has also had to drop a proposal for an EU-wide ban on Nazi symbols.

The European Network Against Racism said most European countries already had laws against incitement to racism, and the "weak text" would leave many national legal codes unchanged.

Films and plays

Under the agreement, incitement to hatred or violence against a group or a person based on colour, race, national or ethnic origin must be punishable by at least a year in jail.

However, member states can choose to limit prosecutions to cases likely to disturb public order.

Punishing incitement to hatred against religion will only be compulsory in cases where it amounts to inciting hatred against a national or ethnic group, race or colour.

Officials said the wording was carefully designed to avoid criminalising films or plays about genocide, or discouraging academic research.

But dissemination of "tracts, pictures or other material" is punishable if it is designed to incite violence or hatred.

The chief difficulty holding up an agreement, since the proposal was first put forward in 2001, was the concern of some states that it would impinge on freedom of speech.

The text of the decision says the new rules will not modify the obligation to respect fundamental legal principles, including freedom of expression and association.

Countries where it is already a crime to deny the Holocaust will stick to their existing rules, but other countries will not be obliged to help them with judicial investigations.

STATES WITH HOLOCAUST DENIAL LAWS
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia

You'll notice Britain isn't on that list. The countries on that list, who operate wt holocaust denial laws, are mainly those who have a strong reason to seek to keep that history.

In Britain, our laws limiting what groups like the BNP can say/disseminate, are very specific. It is not ilegal for someone to say 'I hate all blacks'. It's not illegal to say 'all pakis are scum and we should send 'em all back'. It is illegal to address a rally, or deliver a bunch of leaflets saying 'the time is now, stand up for white rights, kick a paki today'.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Steyn's thesis in his new book, America Alone, is simple: The "European races" i.e., white people – "are too self-absorbed to breed," but the Muslims are multiplying quickly. The inevitable result will be " large-scale evacuation operations circa 2015" as Europe is ceded to al Qaeda and "Greater France remorselessly evolve[s] into Greater Bosnia."

I'd buy that, but soon they will have to fight the spanish speaking illegal immigrants in the US.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I'd buy that, but soon they will have to fight the spanish speaking illegal immigrants in the US.

We may be on the verge of a super-threat, here: what if some of those spanish speaking illegal immigrants happen to be spanish speaking muslim illegal immigrants? I can't even imagine what threat level DHS would put us to if any of them were homosexuals, too.

Better get to breeding, whitey. Your rac-, err, way of life is dying!

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Rich, it's simply that the Wrong Right doesn't have the clout, the organization, the numbers, the funds or the ear of the government to threaten my liberties the way the activists of the Loon Left can.

And too, you've noticed how much advice I take from the Loon and Loon-oid Left.

Unfortunately it's the Right that are taking them away as quickly as they can.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Europeans or British? The BNP are a solely British affair. Even with Euro-wide agreements, the laws are actually very different from one European nation to another.


From BBC


You'll notice Britain isn't on that list. The countries on that list, who operate wt holocaust denial laws, are mainly those who have a strong reason to seek to keep that history.

In Britain, our laws limiting what groups like the BNP can say/disseminate, are very specific. It is not ilegal for someone to say 'I hate all blacks'. It's not illegal to say 'all pakis are scum and we should send 'em all back'. It is illegal to address a rally, or deliver a bunch of leaflets saying 'the time is now, stand up for white rights, kick a paki today'.

Really, so the BNP can have a rally with White Law playing and the crowd giving the Nazi salute in the UK and no one says boo?
I don't think so.
Again, if they are going to do this, they might as well do it for Muslims... same thing.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Unfortunately it's the Right that are taking them away as quickly as they can.

That, rkzen, is what the Loon Left is saying -- they're saying, but I don't see anything happening. They base this upon anti-Republicanism, a most suspicious basis for anything.

My Bill of Rights is as intact as it always was, and better off than when that disgrace Clinton was in. If mine is all right, why is yours decaying?

So the Left is driving for the removal of our freedoms? Really?
Or it isn't happening?
Which one?
Since BushCo. has been in office they have been wiping their ass with the Constitution and Bill Of Rights and I can't wait to see them in prison for it.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Uh -- you better edit.

Yeah, thanks, I added "Left", or are They gonna' come and get me for the last statement? LOL!

[DanaC]

Really, so the BNP can have a rally with White Law playing and the crowd giving the Nazi salute in the UK and no one says boo?
I don't think so.

The BNP hold regular rallies, at which they may, should they wish to do so, raise their hands in nazi salutes and listen to white nationalist music.It's not illegal for them to do so as long as they have the relevant permissions for holding a rally. Just like any other political group. I know, because I've been there on the counter-demos, and have seen the police force protect their right to do so.

Individual local authorities, may refuse to grant permission for a rally/event to be held on council property (ie. the public park, or town centre) if they can reasonably show that it may lead to public disorder and risk. Individual authorities may also have a blanket ban on using their facilities for political purposes (my own authority refused permission to a group of Falun Gong monks who wished to raise awareness of human rights abuses in China, by rallyng in the centre of town)

Rage, I know you think Britain is just a few steps away from fascism because we have laws about inciting racial hatred, but really, I think you have an overblown sense of the limitations we impose on fascist parties. Far morwe worrying, to me, is the laws preventing demonstrations in Parliament square without prior written permisson from the Police. Now that is worrying. That we don't allow people to call for the death and destruction of ethnic minorities within our country really doesn't worry me.

At least things have loosened-up some, perhaps you will get a leader that will stand-up to the EU and will support free-speech completely some day.
Nothing helps those groups & their messages more than legitimizing them with laws that are supposed to "limit" them.